Model E vs Model D

[LarryRow]

So, I want to get a machine for home to supplement my classroom training and initially thought I would get a Model E, but after rowing on a Model D for a while have found that I like the ability to push the monitor out of the way. That's not possible on a Model E, as far as I know.

Are there any other advantages to a Model E that I'm overlooking?

I want a machine that works with RowPro and I'm confused about whether there are problems with integrating RowPro with the new Model D machine. Would a brand new Model D from Concept 2 work flawlessly with RowPro?

[Anth_F]

Model E is higher, 20in off the floor so makes it easier to get on/off especially if you have bad knees. Monitor is in a fixed position yep. But if you have the erg setup at home like me, where it's in a set place and not in the way and not needing to be put away then i don't see why needing to push a monitor out of the way would be necessary.

Also has stronger legs that help the machine to stay in place, rather than move about like model D does under heavy work rate loads.

The chain is also fully encased on model E to protect from dust etc.

[LarryRow]

Well, I was planning on having the machine face my computer monitor so I think the arm on the model E will get in the way.

[Carl Watts]

Any Concept 2 monitor, either the PM3 or PM4 or PM5 will work with Rowpro. The older versions of the PM3 require the firmware to be upgraded to at least V101 from memory.

My advice is only buy a model E if your an old person and you row at a slow pace of 2:30 and above. The longer legs are NOT a good idea from a strength point of view. The Early Model E's destroyed themselves when the legs try to tear themselves from the frame. Basically the construction and the longer legs put more load on the frame. I understand this problem has been sorted if you buy a new one. If you want something you can "Race" on then get a Model D.

No a brand new Model D with a PM5 will not currently work flawlessly with Rowpro, this monitor is still work in progress when it comes to online rowing but it will be sorted in the near future.

[LarryRow]

Thanks Carl! I want a racing rig, for sure. I hadn't thought about the additional load on the front legs.

I'm hoping to do 1:45 pace for the 2k within the next year. I want the right machine for that.

Is your last name really Watts? Perfect name for an indoor rower.

[Citroen]

So, I want to get a machine for home to supplement my classroom training and initially thought I would get a Model E, but after rowing on a Model D for a while have found that I like the ability to push the monitor out of the way. That's not possible on a Model E, as far as I know.

Why not get a dynamic? It has a PM5 so works with RowPro.

[LarryRow]

So, I want to get a machine for home to supplement my classroom training and initially thought I would get a Model E, but after rowing on a Model D for a while have found that I like the ability to push the monitor out of the way. That's not possible on a Model E, as far as I know.

Why not get a dynamic? It has a PM5 so works with RowPro.

You know, that is an interesting thought!

Does the dynamic take up a little less floor space? It looks to be shorter. Can you stand it on end?

Will I be at a huge disadvantage when racing against Model D and E machines?

I do want to row on the water, so a dynamic may be just the ticket.

I'll have to think about it some more.

[Citroen]

The dynamic is 20 inches (51cm) shorter, but you can't stand it on it's end.

I was much faster when I had a go on a dynamic. Just like I was on a regular erg on slides.

[Carl Watts]

Yes my name really is Watts.

The Dynamic takes up less floorspace and if your a heavyweight it will give you and advantage not a disadvantage because your no longer moving your entire body weight up and down the slide. I suspect the dynamic really comes into its own with higher ratings, for the same reason as the losses just moving your body up and down the slide on the static go through the roof at high ratings.

Problem is you cannot directly compare your results to that of a static erg. The Concept 2 logbook does however now enable you to upload your results under a Dynamic so you can directly compare yourself to others using a Dynamic.

[aussieluke]

I've read that the dynamic requires more maintenance and things like shock cords won't last as long

And that the fan does not provide as much cooling air flow due to its position (not that I get that much cool air from my model d anyway)

[LarryRow]

I'm not worried about wear on the cord, somebody on here has 2.5 million meters on their original cord. I'll just buy a few spares.

The cooling fan is not an issue. We always turn on a floor fan when we work out, and I have one at home.

I'm more concerned with whether I can get the same workout and it seems like I can. Thanks for letting me know I would gain some advantage as a heavyweight.

I'm interested in how little body motion there is on the Dynamic and how that would feel. I wish I could try one out in NYC.

[Bob S.]

I'm not worried about wear on the cord, somebody on here has 2.5 million meters on their original cord. I'll just buy a few spares.

The cooling fan is not an issue. We always turn on a floor fan when we work out, and I have one at home.

I'm more concerned with whether I can get the same workout and it seems like I can. Thanks for letting me know I would gain some advantage as a heavyweight.

I'm interested in how little body motion there is on the Dynamic and how that would feel. I wish I could try one out in NYC.

The cord is a bit of a nuisance to replace, but it helps if you link the new cord to the old one to help guide it through. The replacement should be done as soon as the old cord shows any fraying.

There is an option of allowing the air flowing out of the top of the cage to do some cooling or of blocking it off with a sheet of plastic that comes with the machine.

As with the other machines the amount of workout you get depends on you, not the machine.

There is very little movement over all. If you check out the brief video (1:45 total) on the C2 web site for the dynamic: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/dynamic you can see that there is very little movement. In fact, the seat actually moves forward at the end of the drive, as the shoulders move back. Thus the core of the body hardly moves at all. Of course, she is rowing at a very low stroke rate for the demo. But it is my feeling that the dynamics would remain the same at higher rates.

Bob S.

[LarryRow]

I watched that video. So, if there is less body movement, and it is easier to generate higher stroke rates on a dynamic, why are we all working so hard on static machines?

I like the idea of not having to move my body weight up to the catch, especially at high stroke rates. Is this how it is on a real boat? Does the minimal seat travel mimic the seat travel in a boat?

I would like to see a video of someone rowing 32-40 strokes a minute to see what that is like.

I understand how the handle does not pull you back to the catch, just like in a boat. What are the foot rests attached to? Are they on some kind of chain? Foot rest movement doesn't figure into the power generated, does it?

[Bob S.]

Foot rest movement doesn't figure into the power generated, does it?

It has everything to do with it. The assembly manual gives a little idea about how it works. As you can see, the cord is pulled by the handle. It is not clear in the manual, but the other end of the cord is attached to a shuttle. After that it is all chains (which are not very accessible). The chain box acts as a sound resonator, so the dynamic is somewhat noisier than the D and E. I don't know where to find a full schematic for the chain connections of the stretcher, shuttle, and flywheel and I can't remember the rather tricky system. The manual gives only a rough idea of how it works.
http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/in ... Manual.pdf

Bob S.

[Carl Watts]

I watched that video. So, if there is less body movement, and it is easier to generate higher stroke rates on a dynamic, why are we all working so hard on static machines?

Because the static Erg came out in like 1986 and it has evolved to the point of being a very reliable set-up with very little maintenance.

At the end of the day your interested in getting a good workout and the Concept 2 has the advantage of being able to directly compare yourself to others on the same machine so it really doesn't matter if its "Harder" than a Dynamic.

The Dynamic is relatively new but I don't see it being used very much, its not like its release heralded the end of the static erg and Concept 2 stopped making it. I'm pretty sure Eric Murray opted to use a static on slides to do a 5K WR, not a dynamic so that in itself should tell you something.

The dynamic is also WAY more expensive than a static over here, its like another NZ$1000 more expensive than a new Model D and with plenty of second hand Model D's in the market for about 1/3 of the price of a new Dynamic, I don't see it becoming the number one selling C2 Erg.