Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[G-dub]

Pretty darn solid row PIe! Well done. That's a bear the first time you do it and you crushed it!

[jackarabit]

Energetic negative splits and plenty of punch left for the final, Piers. Don't knock rating in the 30s for present purposes. You need those rates for 2k test and your CV fitness is sustaining them well at repeats of 3/4 that distance. If you wish to build power per stroke, 25~30'r20 is an option for hard distance day. You said you looked fwd to this one. Your confidence justified by stylin' execution.

[jackarabit]

Sanz, proper recovery may eventually demand slacking off SS pace to 2k+25~30". As this is best foot forward adrenalin week for some of us , a bit of rush is understandable.

[S-man]

W1D2 - SS 8k. Wasn't sure at what pace I should do the SS. It's meant to be a recovery session so I aimed for current 2k+20 or ~2:25 pace

Ended up with 38 min 25s for 8k, average 2:24.0/500m at r21

Felt ok and HR was 128 at the end. Unfortunately, I don't have a max or min HR to gauge this so not sure if I should go faster or slower for SS.
Maybe I'll wait and see how much fatigue I have after a week or two - PP is about double the weekly km I'm used to!

One question, I did this session strapless - which is how I normally do my long pieces where I'm rating <24 spm. Is this ok for the PP, for the SS? How about for the harder distance or endurance intervals?

First of all, yes strapless is fine (preferred for me on SS pieces). Definitely, though, strap in for the distance / endurance intervals. Maybe others have a different view (but I doubt it). You should always strap in when doing more power / faster work in my opinion.

Your pace sounded smart to me. Also, limiting your SS to 8K is a wise idea too with your limited meters of experience. You did good in other words!

Thanks for the encouragement and advice Mike - will strap in for the harder sessions.
I'm very keen to complete all 6 sessions each week and do as many cycles as I can. Being erratic with my training has undermined any progress in the past, so happy to start modestly to make sure I don't blow up before I get in the swing of things.

[mdpfirrman]

Nice job Piers! Your strategy was very similar to mine. I try to go out the first 100m very strong and then settle in. I work toward a pace along with a challenging SPM rate and then hone in on the SPM number to keep my mind occupied and not think too much about the pain.

You obviously have some decent cardio built up to sustain that stroke rate when tired. Nice work!

[S-man]

Sanz, proper recovery may eventually demand slacking off SS pace to 2k+25~30". As this is best foot forward adrenalin week for some of us , a bit of rush is understandable.

Great advice Jack! I was actually hoping that my 2k pace moves upwards fast enough to allow me to make it 2k+25 at 2:25, but that now seems a bit like trying to go faster by stepping on the gas while the car is sitting on an ice rink
I'm sure your advice is sound and will reassess SS pace after another couple of sessions.

[Joe L]

Great work everyone! I'm interested in what folks will choose for their hard distance workout. I was thinking 196/196/196/196 from the WP or maybe 5 X 8 min r1 min. Would those be appropriate or is it better to just do a hard 10K?

My 5 X 1,500 went as follows:

1:43.2 24 spm
1:43.1 24 spm
1:43.0 24 spm
1:42.8 24 spm
1:41.4 25 spm

Ave was 1:42.7 at 24 spm. My target was 1:43 at 24 for the session. These endurance intervals are really challenging for me and I have trouble holding a high spm. I'll drop the target to 1:42 at 25 spm for the 2nd round. Glad to have this out of the way. Now I have a few days to worry about 4 X 1,000!

[jackarabit]

Great work everyone! I'm interested in what folks will choose for their hard distance workout. I was thinking 196/196/196/196 from the WP or maybe 5 X 8 min r1 min. Would those be appropriate or is it better to just do a hard 10K?

My 5 X 1,500 went as follows:

1:43.2 24 spm
1:43.1 24 spm
1:43.0 24 spm
1:42.8 24 spm
1:41.4 25 spm

Ave was 1:42.7 at 24 spm. My target was 1:43 at 24 for the session. These endurance intervals are really challenging for me and I have trouble holding a high spm. I'll drop the target to 1:42 at 25 spm for the 2nd round. Glad to have this out of the way. Now I have a few days to worry about 4 X 1,000!

Once again, the 13.5 watt' strokes are remarkable. The choice for hard distance is in your last paragraph. If you have trouble holding a high rate, I guess it's a matter of neglecting to practice with a tool that really didn't seem necessary given your power to stroke ratio. Your hip injury may have had some influence on your choices also? Pete's stipulation is hard, continuous distance at free rate. I'm not going to fall into the trap of saying you need to work on a weakness but this is a chore that would force you to develop an alternative, backup capability--an additional arrow in your quiver. How about 5 or 10k alternating rate changes on the 999s of 22, 26, 22, 26, 22spm? Or 24, 26, 28, 26, 24 rate pyramid? Or make something up that puts you outside your comfort zone. 40~60' L4 fits my definition of hard but not Marston's. Your choice.

[bisqeet]

Not sure what to choose for hard.
Free rate 5k/10k/30mins/60mins/Hm
Still have a few ' targets ' to hit
Sub 37 for 10k, sub 18 for 5k, 16k for 60', sub 120 for HM.
Today in going to moses the erg, i have otw later. Monday I did a double session and although yesterday I felt good, probably better not to overdo it.

[bisqeet]

Great work everyone! I'm interested in what folks will choose for their hard distance workout. I was thinking 196/196/196/196 from the WP or maybe 5 X 8 min r1 min. Would those be appropriate or is it better to just do a hard 10K?

My 5 X 1,500 went as follows:

1:43.2 24 spm
1:43.1 24 spm
1:43.0 24 spm
1:42.8 24 spm
1:41.4 25 spm

Ave was 1:42.7 at 24 spm. My target was 1:43 at 24 for the session. These endurance intervals are really challenging for me and I have trouble holding a high spm. I'll drop the target to 1:42 at 25 spm for the 2nd round. Glad to have this out of the way. Now I have a few days to worry about 4 X 1,000!

That is some pace there for that session, these sessions though 24spm a bit low, 26/28 was advised to me
by one or two fast rowers few years back, you must be a very strong guy to pull those kind of stats
on 24spm.

I found this one in the past not far off what i could do my hard 5k at, looking back at some
old workouts in my folder .1 the difference.

The 5k,6k,10k etc do not have to be done flat out, once they are faster than your steady rows.

More you do off them etc you get used to them, learn how to pace them etc.

Pete also told me few years back a steady 10k say is done about 3-4 seconds slower than
your 10k PB pace, but 10 seconds slower than your endurance intervals seems to spot on.

Pure recovery, ie you feel really tired from training just back off at whatever feels easy for you,
that is were i would recommend a heart rate monitor and keep it in the mid 120's.

rate is always going to be bodysize related
joe, looking at his bio has a decent wingspan, so he can use the power on a longer stroke more efficiently.
dont forget the drive is always the same - the recovery is just slower.
so his standard pull is in excess of 13,7W/stroke, which is good power and obviously very sustainable for him.
Another factor is the breathing - big guys tend to breathe slower (bigger lung capacity) - we tend to breath in rhythm to our stroke - faster stroke / faster breathing.
we can store more air in our larger lungs and therefore dont need to wappid wabbit wate..


dont forget in rowing we keep our drive constant. same power, same speed.
the only thing that should change is the recovery phase. more recovery time - lower rate. lower average power.

@ R26 that would be a sub 1:40/500, which wasn't his target - hence the rate reduction.

imo. absolutely correct

[lindsayh]

hey Paul - careful here - different strokes for different folks - so not rubbish just different.
If Joe can hit his numbers at that SR (which is amazing) then that is fine - it is just training after all (and pretty good training at that)

[lindsayh]

My point being is not to do the same pace at 27-28spm, if he can do
5 x 1500m @ that pace imagine what pace he could do @ 27/28.

I agree - just imagine - he might have a good go at the next cycle.

[Pie Man]

I was planning on studying to be a Surgeon, but I am now considering Accountancy very strong times from Joe L and everyone else, working as a group certainly gets me going that bit harder.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement. At Jacks suggestion I am thinking of making my hard distance piece a 30@20spm so I can concentrate on my stroke power. At the moment depending on stroke rate my stroke is 8.5-9w so my pace for this piece would be 2:05 to give me 9w any quicker than that and I'd be happy. My main problem is going to be sticking to the 20 spm, but I will just have to practice that. I won't change my DF from the 116 I have been using, but upping that may help in the longer term.

[G-dub]

Pierce, for what it's worth my experience was that a lower drag actually helped me learn to row r20. I wasn't feeling rushed to get back up the slide before the fan stopped spinning. Once I got the timing figured out I was able to bring the drag back up, but still only use 112-116. Drag is of course individual preference.

[G-dub]

Awesome stuff Joe L.! My advice would be to keep doing what you are doing! Seems to be working just fine.