Help me go sub-7:00 for the 2k

[gregsmith01748]

It's my dream to row in an old fart boat! I see that RowNewYork has some 4s, I think that would be fun. I wish I had some idea if there was an old fart standard in terms of erg score. I do love the machine too, though.

I always saw masters track as kind of demoralizing, mainly because there is nowhere to hide. They might as well announce that there is an old fart in lane 1. At least when you run in road races with 5,000 people, there are plenty of places to hide.

Do you know how master's running got started? Some guy's dog couldn't keep up with him when they ran together and the guy was too slow to run in open meets. So, he set up a master's mile, it was a huge success, and the rest is history.

Gotta go row. It sure is humid as heck in New York. Ugh.

Hi Larry,

Let me try to get you calibrated, as best I can. I am a certified, card carrying old fart. I started erging in 2010, and took a learn to row course in 2012. My best 2K (6:36) was in 2013, but I walk around generally in shape to pul around a 6:50 or so. I'm a couple inches shorter than you and a little bit heavier, so that's why I think you have better potential than I do. Plus you have a longer history of aerobic exercise.

My erg scores in competitions tend to be in the top 20%. I don't race big boats on the water, mainly because my travel schedule is pretty irregular and I don't want to "that guy" who is always missing practice. So, I row a single. With 3 years on the water, and a 6:50 erg, I am a middle of the pack rower in a single. At the Head of the Charles, I was 25th out of 60. In smaller comps, I tend to float a little closer to the top.

If you want to "fit in" with masters rowers between 50 and 60 and hold your head high, you probably want to on your way to sub-7, but it is by no means a requirement. People would much rather row with someone who is good to be around, reliable, takes coaching, a works their ass off than a jerk with a big erg.

[hjs]

It's my dream to row in an old fart boat! I see that RowNewYork has some 4s, I think that would be fun. I wish I had some idea if there was an old fart standard in terms of erg score. I do love the machine too, though.

I always saw masters track as kind of demoralizing, mainly because there is nowhere to hide. They might as well announce that there is an old fart in lane 1. At least when you run in road races with 5,000 people, there are plenty of places to hide.

Do you know how master's running got started? Some guy's dog couldn't keep up with him when they ran together and the guy was too slow to run in open meets. So, he set up a master's mile, it was a huge success, and the rest is history.

Gotta go row. It sure is humid as heck in New York. Ugh.

Just do it, otw rowing is much more about technique, you don,t need a fast erg score. For all levels there are boats.

I love the fact that hiding is not possible, in a boat with others you can though......

[bisqeet]

It's my dream to row in an old fart boat! I see that RowNewYork has some 4s, I think that would be fun. I wish I had some idea if there was an old fart standard in terms of erg score. I do love the machine too, though.

I always saw masters track as kind of demoralizing, mainly because there is nowhere to hide. They might as well announce that there is an old fart in lane 1. At least when you run in road races with 5,000 people, there are plenty of places to hide.

Do you know how master's running got started? Some guy's dog couldn't keep up with him when they ran together and the guy was too slow to run in open meets. So, he set up a master's mile, it was a huge success, and the rest is history.

Gotta go row. It sure is humid as heck in New York. Ugh.

Just do it, otw rowing is much more about technique, you don,t need a fast erg score. For all levels there are boats.

I love the fact that hiding is not possible, in a boat with others you can though......

i tend not to capsize as much when i crab in a quad.. in a single it gets embarresing always returning to the boathouse wet...

[hjs]

i tend not to capsize as much when i crab in a quad.. in a single it gets embarresing always returning to the boathouse wet...

And dangerous, friend of mine almost drowned in colder water. Years ago over here a complete boat drowned in wintertime. In minutes they went down, only a 100 yards from shore. The cold hit them almost instant.

[bisqeet]

there is that, henry.
there is a slight chance of drowning in my own sweat on the erg, but thats about it...

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

If you want to "fit in" with masters rowers between 50 and 60 and hold your head high, you probably want to on your way to sub-7, but it is by no means a requirement. People would much rather row with someone who is good to be around, reliable, takes coaching, a works their ass off than a jerk with a big erg.

Greg made great points and I would just add that don't underestimate the erg standards difference between people in their early 50s and late 50s. My father, an ex-Olympic rower, still actively competes and is at the top of his categories every year, and I can tell you his scores have not decreased linearly as he has aged - there comes a time when all of a sudden you start to see pretty major decreases. So my only point is don't look at it so much as 50-60, because if you're 59 and trying to compare yourself to a 51 year old chances are your scores will be slower and that's okay!

[LarryRow]

If you want to "fit in" with masters rowers between 50 and 60 and hold your head high, you probably want to on your way to sub-7, but it is by no means a requirement. People would much rather row with someone who is good to be around, reliable, takes coaching, a works their ass off than a jerk with a big erg.

Greg made great points and I would just add that don't underestimate the erg standards difference between people in their early 50s and late 50s. My father, an ex-Olympic rower, still actively competes and is at the top of his categories every year, and I can tell you his scores have not decreased linearly as he has aged - there comes a time when all of a sudden you start to see pretty major decreases. So my only point is don't look at it so much as 50-60, because if you're 59 and trying to compare yourself to a 51 year old chances are your scores will be slower and that's okay!

I think you're right. I believe we lose muscle mass as we age, and although we can fight against it, it happens. We are all someplace on the curve of life.

Runners know that their first year in a new age bracket is the one in which they turn in their best times, it's no secret.

Still, like you said, it's about competing and and trying to stay at the top of your category. Perhaps the age brackets should be five years and not ten.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Rowing has age categories every 5 years if I'm not mistaken. They start in AA and go up through A, B all the way to at least K just from memory.

You'll find that especially in head races they'll do away with the 5-year age categories and just assign handicaps based on age.

[G-dub]

In regards to volume...we know that specificity is important, so there will be some blow back on this. If I did 100k a week steady state on the erg I would be spending 6 hrs and 10 minutes In an aerobic HR zone. Right now I am spending about 4 hrs on the erg a week, an hour and a half on the mountain bike and say an hour to an hour half running per week (it's not always consistent, but this is a typical week). I am not counting weight training, which does have my heart rate up too and would add maybe another half hour or more. So time spent per week for me is something a little more than what 100k would be with my heart rate in an aerobic sort of zone. I should feel all about that, right, in terms of cardio oriented volume? Sometimes more time gets shifted to the erg, but if I put in say 6:30 - 7 hours of aerobic work I should be able to make progress, no?

[MarkEg]

Carl Watts writes:

You need to start clocking up the meters with distance rows building in intensity, just doing all short sprint stuff will not get you there on its own.

Absolutely! Doing 8x500 or even 12x500 every couple days ain't going to get it. 2k is speed but it's also aerobic endurance. 4x2000m/5'R or 3x2500m provides a tough once per week dose of speed/endurance as does 5-10k continuous at free rate.

Just out of curiosity what sort of pace should 4 x2000s or 3x2500s be done at? I might build these into my schedule.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

G-dub, yes. More volume = more gains.

It is important to do SS at the proper intensity, however, and make sure you are recovering enough between workouts.

[mdpfirrman]

Carl Watts writes:

You need to start clocking up the meters with distance rows building in intensity, just doing all short sprint stuff will not get you there on its own.

Absolutely! Doing 8x500 or even 12x500 every couple days ain't going to get it. 2k is speed but it's also aerobic endurance. 4x2000m/5'R or 3x2500m provides a tough once per week dose of speed/endurance as does 5-10k continuous at free rate.

Just out of curiosity what sort of pace should 4 x2000s or 3x2500s be done at? I might build these into my schedule.

Look up the Pete Plan Lunch Hour blog. I great reference for intervals. I think he says (and I'm going off of memory here) do your 2000 x 4 at 5K PB pace plus one second if I'm not mistaken. He also tells you to (if you have it in you) push the last interval harder.

https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/

Edit - looked it up because my memory is terrible. 2000 x 4 should be done at 5K PB pace plus 1/2 second. So my PB 5K pace is like 1:57.5, so my 2000 X 4 would be done at 1:58.0.

[Edward4492]

OTW Masters has age categories, but the handicaps are accessed every year. So a 57 yr old gets more time than a 55 yr old, etc. Larry, don't set some arbitrary performance goal before getting in a boat. Learning to scull this year (well, barely what you would call sculling) has been the best thing I've ever done in my sporting life. As I documented in earlier posts I laced together ten 100k weeks and knocked out one million meters (all around a 2;10 pace). Lost my erg speed which I'm just starting to re-train. But the pay off was boundless endurance. I've done several 20k days on the water; no problems. You can get your LSD work on the water; very exciting compared to the erg. I'm not skilled enough to go fast in a single to where I can do quality speed work, so I do that on the erg.

There's guys I can crush on the erg that I don't think I'll ever catch in a boat, so don't worry about some magic erg score before you start OTW. Find a club and do it....you'll never look back!

[G-dub]

Carl Watts writes:

You need to start clocking up the meters with distance rows building in intensity, just doing all short sprint stuff will not get you there on its own.

Absolutely! Doing 8x500 or even 12x500 every couple days ain't going to get it. 2k is speed but it's also aerobic endurance. 4x2000m/5'R or 3x2500m provides a tough once per week dose of speed/endurance as does 5-10k continuous at free rate.

Just out of curiosity what sort of pace should 4 x2000s or 3x2500s be done at? I might build these into my schedule.

These are about 6K pace ish or a second or so above 5 K pace depending on our fitness and make up.

[G-dub]

G-dub, yes. More volume = more gains.

It is important to do SS at the proper intensity, however, and make sure you are recovering enough between workouts.

Recovery is OK I think -been doing this for quite some time. If I get too sassy with speed intervals I get a little jittery. The reason for the question is that it is easy to only think about erg meters, but the total amount of time one spends doing appropriately intense cardio work can add up to more than one gives one credit for potentially. Recognizing that time on erg is more valuable for erging than time in running shoes or on a bike.