hjs wrote:LarryRow wrote:This a fun discussion, please don't take my comments personally. I don't think we're that far apart, perhaps we just haven't figured out how to say it.
Middle distance means having to do real speed work? I don't understand your statement.
I was a middle distance runner and my speed work paled in comparison to the speed work done by the track team, which was a totally separate group of people. In the winter, I used to run on a banked indoor 200m track where young dudes would throw down 25 second times for 200m.
There was nobody on the middle distance crew, which I define as 5k and longer, who could run that kind of time. We ran in lane 1 so we didn't get killed by the fast guys in lanes 2-4.
I knew Lydiard would come up.
Pace is important, distance alone does not say much, so the complete picture is what pace did he run these "marathons"? With my stress fracture, I could have "run" a 4:30-5:00 hour marathon, but, to me, it just made no sense. I used to do twenty mile training runs every week, in three hours or more, so pretty easy pace.
Anyway, I'm just trying to get some training tips. I'm going to be careful to balance volume and intensity. It's a difficult problem, as I know from running.
No sweat, you can say a lot to me, we can agree or not, both is fine.
I have a track background, sprinting is 400 or shorter, middle distance 800/mile, for that you need and pure speed and good aerobic fitness. From 3/5k on its long distance for me. Speedtraining, in the sence of sprinting is pretty pointless.
And marathons above 4 hour? Don,t let me even start about that. Those people should run much shorter, marathon is nothing for them.
The Lydiard guys run pretty fast, the whole idea was to exhaust the slowmuscle fibers that much, that the intermediate fibers also began to get aerobicly trained.
But again, long distance training in rowing has nothing to do with running. Its not using a weak stroke and fluffing along its using a pretty strong stroke, at low rate. 18/20 for the bulk. Toprowers use 1.45 rate 20 for "easy" ut2 work.
And for I see not enough raw strenght. Improve there and your times will come down easily, nomatter what rowtraining you do.
Ah, so what was your preferred track distance? I'm not a track geek so I don't divide up the world the way you do. So be it.
If by sprinting, you mean running at max effort, the human body is only able to do that for about 5 seconds, if I recall correctly. Beyond that, it's all pacing.
400m is long, nobody sprints it, in my opinion. Everybody thinks you just go out and run that at your max effort, but that is just not true for anybody.
Here is an interview with Michael Johnson in which he describes his pacing strategy for the 400:
http://speedendurance.com/2007/06/27/mi ... 00-meters/
I will venture to say that even Usain Bolt is pacing himself, LOL.
The most pain I have ever felt was trying to run my fastest possible 400. I'm not keen to go back there.
I don't understand why you think speed training is senseless. The guys I saw ran fast in training so they could run even faster in meets. 25 second 200m repeats on an indoor track are something beautiful to behold, they're is such a display of raw, brute, strength. You had better have glutes to run fast. As sprint coaches say, if it ain't got a butt, it ain't a sprinter.
800m runners and milers are pretty slow compared to the 400m and below guys. That's more about endurance and less about pure speed in my mind.
Yes, I know about Lydiard's theory of bringing more muscle motor units online when you run tired. I used to try to do that all the time.
Anyway, I got out of running because very few people understand the difference in difficulty between a 5 minute mile and a 5 hour marathon. That, and the injuries.
The average person never talks about pace, they only talk about distance, ad infinitum. I lost track of how many people wanted to know about my upcoming marathon when I was trying to improve my 5k speed.
I'm still feeling my way around the sport of rowing. I appreciate all of the suggestions.
This extremes are too extreme business feels like playing raquetball in a pitch black room. Too many wild swings! Turn on the lights! What does the ball look like? I went back three pages to find so much as an oblique reference to members (Galeere, Bisqeet) who do a lot of volume as HM continuous efforts. Three pages later, Larry has another head scratcher! 
about 400, fully agree, monster distance, you need to be a freak to run a bit ok. I have won a good bit of bets letting people run one lap. Hahaha. Most average pretty fit guys don,t run sub 60, sub 55 is intrained already fast. 
because I can,t and don,t feel the need to paddle with a bunch of other old farts. 
I am very much a solo sports guy.
