Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 21 2006, 11:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 21 2006, 11:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW - PM's to me, supporting Chad so far = 0 (but it's only been a day since the request was made.) <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Somehow I would think that a thread that could produce 500-odd posts and thousands of views in 4 days would have generated some PM's to you by now.

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jan 21 2006, 11:18 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:18 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You've also proved one of my points.  You've just used "society and the surroundings I have been put in have had a huge bearing in making me this way".  No, you <b>CHOOSE </b>to be the way you are.  <br /><br />Regards -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark, That statement is very naive; I take it you have never been a P.O.W<br /><br />I am not going down this road anymore. Argue amongst yourselves.

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 21 2006, 11:56 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 21 2006, 11:56 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ps  It's not my intension to insult you, but in general I am not a fan off the legael systeem in the Us. And I think I am intitelt to say so. I do live in country were you can say what you think. (although it is changing do to influences out off the Us ) <br /> </td></tr></table><br />hjs:<br /><br />You're certainly entitled to feel any way you want.<br /><br />Yes, you live in a country where you can say what you think, but you still have to take responsibility for what you say. I believe you're in the Netherlands, no? (If this is wrong, I apologize. Let me know where you do live and I'll do some research.) Just one example. See:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.rap21.org/article1481.html' target='_blank'>http://www.rap21.org/article1481.html</a><br /><br />We have no such laws here. I can criticize our President and any member of our various levels of government without restraint or fear of reprisal. You cannot criticize the members of your monarchy likewise. You <b>blame </b>the US for having influence on your free speech? Last time I checked, there was no country on earth that had more latitude on free speech than the US ... although there are many with similar levels. This law (link above) is just one factual example to prove my point.<br /><br />If you live in a democracy, you change your own laws ... the US is not to blame. What you may mean is that the examples set by the US have become popular with the majority in your country, and you do not like this. That's fair, but please don't blame the US.<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 12:28 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 12:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jan 21 2006, 11:18 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:18 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You've also proved one of my points.  You've just used "society and the surroundings I have been put in have had a huge bearing in making me this way".  No, you <b>CHOOSE </b>to be the way you are.  <br /><br />Regards -- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark, That statement is very naive; I take it you have never been a P.O.W<br /><br />I am not going down this road anymore. Argue amongst yourselves. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Chad:<br /><br /><b>You just proved my point.</b> <br /><br />No, I have never been a POW. However, the author of the book I recommended to you, Victor Frankl, was interned in a German camp during WWII because he was a Jew. His studies prove that even when oppressed to that magnitude, what kept men alive was the way they felt, their character and their morals, and what was most important to them in their life (family and friends). It was how they chose to feel about their situation and their plight that gave them strength, or caused them to waste away.<br /><br />I've studied this human dynamic. I'll go out on a limb here and say that I know a bit more about this than you do, unless <b>YOU </b>were a POW, in which case I'll defer to you and apologize. Were you?<br /><br />Please do some exploration, expand your horizons, and open your mind first, comment after that (when you have something meaningful, enlightening, or honestly challenging to share).<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll go out on a limb here and say that I know a bit more about this than you do, unless <b>YOU </b>were a POW, in which case I'll defer to you and apologize.  Were you?<br /><br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry Mark, but I never have and never will talk about that part of my life.<br /><br /><br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

Anyone know what time Dwayne is planning his 2000m? Is it on Saturday or Sunday?<br /><br />

[[old] hjs]

Actually, hjs, you're wrong, I wouldn't say or even think that. What I'd think is, "Wow, that's great. I should PM hjs and see if he'd be willing to share any of his training techniques with me to help me do better." People have a tendency to project onto others how thay would act in a similar situation. Please don't project how you'd act onto me.<br /><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />The point is not everbody is alike. The world is full of decieve. This doesn't mean that I say Dwayne is a deciever but I want to see a real result. You don't need that, there is nothing wrong in that but I am differant.<br /><br />And about trainingadvice. Now I would give it to you, But If we were both opponents on a high level, Than I would not give you my way Of training.<br />That's also the reason (I think) chad is not saying what he does. I also don't see dwyane giving away his program (logic I think)<br /><br />About that apologie, I think off myself as being an individuel, I don't stand behind a flag and just be prood off being dutch. If you are proud off being American, that's fine by me but All I can say. be proud off you own acchievements and don't just follow your country. (the Us does all sorts off things which are not so great, ass does every other country)<br /><br />So I don't think that I own you a apologie.

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 12:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 12:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll go out on a limb here and say that I know a bit more about this than you do, unless <b>YOU </b>were a POW, in which case I'll defer to you and apologize.  Were you?<br /><br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry Mark, but I never have and never will talk about that part of my life. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Just as you won't talk about your training ... and more innuendo here about possible POW status that leaves this open for interpretation based on one's imagination. Can't you see why most people question your integrity Chad? You certainly have a right to speak about, or not speak about, what you choose. But being willing to only tell part of the story after making baseless accusations like you have goes toward suggesting a lack of credibility.

[[old] kinley]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Chad Williams  Today, 11:01 AM  <br />I want to see proof of that claim. </td></tr></table><br /><br />He's from Missouri

[[old] hjs]

<a href='http://www.rap21.org/article1481.html' target='_blank'>http://www.rap21.org/article1481.html</a><br /><br /><br /><br />Mark, yes I am from the netherlands.<br /><br />This stupid law you are showing means nothing in reality over here. And over he If you go to court for something like that ans you are being convicted you get a very low penalty. <br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jan 21 2006, 11:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 12:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 12:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 21 2006, 11:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll go out on a limb here and say that I know a bit more about this than you do, unless <b>YOU </b>were a POW, in which case I'll defer to you and apologize.  Were you?<br /><br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry Mark, but I never have and never will talk about that part of my life. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Just as you won't talk about your training ... and more innuendo here about possible POW status that leaves this open for interpretation based on one's imagination. Can't you see why most people question your integrity Chad? You certainly have a right to speak about, or not speak about, what you choose. But being willing to only tell part of the story after making baseless accusations like you have goes toward suggesting a lack of credibility. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ok.<br /><br />What do you want to know about my training then. You can ask but you may not get.<br /><br />If you want to know PB's, do you think I am silly enough to post them on here, in public view, when I have no evidance to back them up.<br /><br />

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 21 2006, 12:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 21 2006, 12:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, hjs, you're wrong, I wouldn't say or even think that. What I'd think is, "Wow, that's great. I should PM hjs and see if he'd be willing to share any of his training techniques with me to help me do better." People have a tendency to project onto others how thay would act in a similar situation. Please don't project how you'd act onto me.<br /><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />The point is not everbody is alike. The world is full of decieve. This doesn't mean that I say Dwayne is a deciever but I want to see a real result. You don't need that, there is nothing wrong in that but I am differant.<br /><br />And about trainingadvice. Now I would give it to you, But If we were both  opponents on a high level, Than I would not give you my way Of training.<br />That's also the reason (I think) chad is not saying what he does. I also don't see dwyane giving away his program (logic I think)<br /><br />About that apologie, I think off myself as being an individuel, I don't stand behind a flag and just be prood off being dutch. If you are proud off being American, that's fine by me but All I can say. be proud off you own acchievements and don't just follow your country. (the Us does all sorts off things which are not so great, ass does every other country)<br /><br />So I don't think that I own you a apologie. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />hjs:<br /><br />I've never said that everyone should be alike ... and never will. Heck, I just closed the purchase of an apartment (this past Tuesday) in Italy, in a town where little English is spoken (I've taught myself Italian) and I plan to spend as much time as possible there, before retirement and after retirement spending whole summers and other extended periods there. My goal is to be accepted there as a local, not as a visitor. I've tried to adapt to the customs of the region, and I've come to be a pretty good cook of the tradiitional local dishes there ... which has earned me a bit of acclaim from my Italian friends there. They are amazed an American would be so flexible and so interested in trying on their way of life -- which is wonderful by the way. I tell you this not to show off, but to give you some context and to help us understand one another more deeply.<br /><br />With regard to training, even if you were my strongest competitor, my goal would be to help you get as good as you can be, and I would hope likewise from you. It's not like there's any money involved here ... all there is is personal achievement and satisfaction. I'd take great satisfaction in helping someone get better at this sport ... and in my meager way, I believe I have helped some beginners, and thus feel satisfied that I have contributed.<br /><br />I'm an individual surely, but you know, deep down inside, that the American thing was a crack that was uncalled for. Wrap it up however you want, rationalize it however you want, it was still aimed to be uncomplimentary without reason. I hold no grudges, but I do like to call a spade an spade, and a diamond a diamond. A pet peeve of mine, or a "bete noir" as they say in France (sorry for mis-spelling if I have).<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] FrancoisA]

One thing that seem to transpire from this long thread is the need for accountability, being in a position to provide evidences of one's performance.<br /><br />Even though I am 99 % confident that all Dwayne's times are true, I wouldn't stake my life on it. Does that mean I think Dwayne is a liar ? No, not at all! On the other hand, I am 100% sure that Michael Phelps did 1:53.93 in the 200m fly at the World Championship in Barcelona on July 22, 2003 ? I saw it on TV, and it is on the official FINA web site. Even at my little swim club, only performances done at sanctioned swim meets can count as club records. To be sanctioned, swim meets must have registered officials and at least two timers per lane. Three timers are needed for a provincial or national record.<br />We will never be 100% sure that a posted time is valid unless it is done at a sanctioned public race, and that applies only to the 2K. Short of that, there are several steps that can be used, either by themselves or in conjunction, to raise the confidence level others have in posted times: the PM3 validation code, witnesses, video, Rowpro files, etc.<br /><br />Even though my times are quite average, after reading this thread, I edited my recent ranked PBs with the PM3 code, in order to get an "IND_V". IMHO, there is an increasing moral obligation to accountability, the higher an athlete is in the ranking. <br /><br />We are all part of a small community, and this thread has been quite divisive. I hope we will be able to forgive each other and move forward united.<br /><br />I wish you all a great weekend, and all the best to Dwayne, who took the courageous step to dispel any doubts on his achievements.<br /><br />Francois

[[old] kinley]

Thank you, Francois, for a gracious post on this malicious thread! I, on the other hand, have not been so gracious in failing to respond to your earlier request for impressions of my new slides. As it will take me time to become acclimated to the slides & the rate they seem to demand, I defer to Carla's earlier reply to your question. <br />

[[old] Graham Benton]

Francois, excellent post.