Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-seat5+Jan 19 2006, 03:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Jan 19 2006, 03:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don,t now your exact times but you are saying you don't have decent short distance times couse you are afraid to go to deap. So there's a reason for teh slower times but nevertheless I think your 2k split wil be al lot faster than your 10 k split. Maybe less than average but faster. </td></tr></table><br /><br />My best 2K (which is a few years old) is only 7:48.? . That's 1:57. Just recently I did a 6K at 1:58.3, and a 30 min @20 spm at 1:59.5. My marathon last year was in 3:07.43.4. Reference pace for Wolverine Plan L4 is of course supposed to be 1:57, but I do Level 4 workouts (when I do them--I'm not properly following it) using a ref pace of 1:49.<br /><br />The fact is if there were more women rowers (more competition) I wouldn't be top ranked at all. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><br />Thanks carla, Good times an yes a bit strange your 2 K. But you now yourself you could do a lot better. <br />But to come back to my earlier point, althoug great rowing, no worldclass.<br /><br />ps Fucus a bit on the shorter ones, you can easely improve them and ding that your longer distances will also improve. <br /><br />keep on enjoying. <br />

[[old] cbrock]

<!--QuoteBegin-seat5+Jan 19 2006, 09:34 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Jan 19 2006, 09:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 19 2006, 09:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 19 2006, 09:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I do have a Question.  Does anybody now any other ergers on the raking lists who never performes on races?<br />I think it will be hard to find one. And if you do, his or her rankings are also Questionable. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />That's exactly what I figured would come of this whole discussion--and is the exact reason I wanted a PM3 so much--when I thought it's verification would be proof. I am ranked in the top 3 in many events--last year in 5 events, and 4th in a 6th; all the other events, 6th, 49th, and 17th. The slow ones are the 2K and under--I just not good at those distances--afraid to push myself that hard. I hope to improve them this year, but since races are 2Ks, why would I race at an event for which I've never had a satisfactory result? I haven't done them all the events yet this year but expect to do about as well. Right now my 2K and under events are taken from splits off a longer piece (yes, from the beginning) for Nonathlon. I don't think I've even bothered to rank them. By the end o f the season I'll do them but don't expect to rank even high enough to need to use my code from Dena.<br /><br />It is very posssible to have top times in the long events and lousy ones in the shorter ones. I'm proof of it, though I know there are people out there who would look at times like mine and say, she can't possibly have done that 10K, because look at her 1K and 2K times. Would anyone expect a top 100 meter sprinter (Carl Lewis or someone like that) to do a great marathon time? Or Bill Rodgers (yes I'm dating myself) to beat Carl Lewis at the 100 meters? Why is it so strange that someone could have good endurance and strength for long rows and not be able to do so well the fast rate sprint stuff? Or just not be willing to suffer the results of doing sprints when that seems to result in injury most of the time?<br /><br />And, I don't race. I hate public performance and while for some the adrenaline gives them a positive influence for me it works the opposite way. I am sure that if I did race or row in public my performance would be considerably worse than when I am alone and can totally focus--also, a race is at a given time and PBs can happen when you are just ready to do it. Some day I may dare to race but it's not what I want to be doing. This, of course, is what "separates the men from the boys" as far as competition goes, and why I'm totally in awe of those that actually go to the venues and put themselves on the line in that way.<br /><br />And, by the way, I don't have a problem with Rod Freed's times, either. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Carla,<br />Your 6k time (23:34) would be a 2k split of 7:52.<br /><br />A 7:42 in Race conditions would be a walk in the Park for you.<br /><br />Anything below 7:40 would be a medal chance.<br /><br />What's that saying the joy of victory only comes after the agony of defeat.<br /><br />So what if you row only 7:45. That's half the fun. <br /><br />I used to get whipped in 5k running races as well but that didn't stop me from trying.<br /><br />If I was that close to a medal I would rather die knowing I had a go!<br /><br />Chris<br />

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 19 2006, 01:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 19 2006, 01:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am going to turn the other check with regards to slo_boat and Porkchop as they are adding nothing to the topic apart from trying to pick a fight. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Very sad Chad.<br /><br />I am not picking a fight with you. <br /><br />I have asked you to hold yourself to the same standards of accountability that you demand of others. <i>You still do not.</i><br /><br />I have asked you to accept responsibility for your statements and accusations and to understand the consequences of your words. <i>You still have not acknowledged that questioning Dwayne’s submissions in an honor system is the same as questioning his truthfulness. You called him a liar. When confronted with that simple fact, you claim that you are misunderstood. Nevertheless, you continue with your assertions. </i><br /><br />I have asked you to be honest in your intent. <i>You claim that your intent is to question the ranking system and to spur improvement. However, you began by attacking a fellow sportsman’s integrity, and you continue the attacks.</i><br /><br />I suggested that if you want somebody to improve the rankings, then you should be the somebody that makes the improvement. <i>You continue to whine that they aren’t what you want them to be, and you keep demanding that somebody else fix them.</i><br /><br />You claimed to have studied the way of the warrior (bushido), so I tried to appeal to you in that context. <i>Sadly, you lack understanding.</i><br /><br />I have cautioned you against making assumptions about other people’s motivations. <i>You continue to persist in making unwarranted assumptions. .</i><br /><br />The saddest part of all is that many people agree that it is time for indoor rowing to grow up as a sport. It is time for indoor rowing to develop a governing body and to establish standards for record keeping. I applaud C2 for what it has done. However as long as C2 serves as the governing body and sets the standards, then rankings and records and even events will remain marketing exercises designed to enhance demand for a product. Unfortunately we are a lazy and selfish lot. We want the structure, and we want the standards, but we want someone else to do it all for us.<br /><br />Every once in a while someone comes along with the passion necessary to change the status quo. <b>You could have been that person.</b> Instead, you have created a reputation for yourself as destructive and not constructive by being petty and divisive. That is a shame.

[[old] Chad Williams]

Slo_boat, round we go again.<br /><br />Dwayne’s times not having any proof to back them up is being used by me to make my point. If anybody else’s times stood out to me by showing so many inconsistencies then I would have picked their times as an example. It was done on times/distances not by an individual.<br /><br />You think I am picking on Dwayne, I am picking on the flaws in his times not him as an individual.<br />You are making a massive issue out of it when in fact it is very simple.<br /><br />Yes, things need to change but until people understand what is going on how are they going to understand that things need changing.<br /><br />I go back to the point I made a few pages ago-<br />If this poll was about Graham Benton would we be getting the same responce, the answer is no, as he has PROVED his times are for real.<br /><br />Dwayne needs to do the same.<br /><br />

[[old] j.d]

Chad,<br /><br />That was an awesome 30 min piece you did!!<br /><br />jd

[[old] Daren C]

I've deleted your CTC entry, Chad. I'll reinstate it if you can prove it was genuine.

[[old] Chad Williams]

This is the sort of childish thing you get when people don’t want to accept the things they don’t like to hear.<br /><br />I have not entered any distance on the C2C site, it goes against what I believe in. I request that distance be removed.<br /><br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Daren C+Jan 19 2006, 10:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Daren C @ Jan 19 2006, 10:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've deleted your CTC entry, Chad.  I'll reinstate it if you can prove it was genuine. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thank you Daren. I will not or have not posted a time/distance on the site.

[[old] PaulH]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 19 2006, 09:54 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 19 2006, 09:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Slo_boat, round we go again.<br /><br />Dwayne’s times not having any proof to back them up is being used by me to make my point. If anybody else’s times stood out to me by showing so many inconsistencies then I would have picked their times as an example. It was done on times/distances not by an individual.<br /><br />You think I am picking on Dwayne, I am picking on the flaws in his times not him as an individual.<br />You are making a massive issue out of it when in fact it is very simple.<br /><br />Yes, things need to change but until people understand what is going on how are they going to understand that things need changing.<br /><br />I go back to the point I made a few pages ago-<br />If this poll was about Graham Benton would we be getting the same responce, the answer is no, as he has PROVED his times are for real.<br /><br />Dwayne needs to do the same. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />You still haven't explained why Dwayne should, but people lower down the ranking should not. Should the person in 5th place prove it? 10th? 50th? If so, how would we manage it? And if not, why?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Paul

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 19 2006, 10:23 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 19 2006, 10:23 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You still haven't explained why Dwayne should, but people lower down the ranking should not.  Should the person in 5th place prove it?  10th? 50th?  If so, how would we manage it?  And if not, why?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Paul <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />They are not claiming one of the top 3 ranking places, or claiming to row world class times and then not performing at public races.<br /><br />

[[old] Kirky]

If this has already been dealt with, my apologies, and again, my apologies if this question seems a bit simplistic, but why is there any verification 'option' in the first place? <br /><br />Is it there for anything other than to differentiate between 'levels or degrees of proof' of performances entered? And could one say, if that <b>is</b> why the option is there (in the forms that it takes), that some performance entered are less credible than others? If not, why bother having any verification option?<br /><br />I genuinely want to see from a different perspective on this, but seem to have got myself blinkered at the moment!!<br /><br />Kirky

[[old] Chad Williams]

I would like to ask C2 to take Dwayne’s ranking times that have a IND_V next to them and replace them with just IND.<br /><br />He should then go to a Public race and perform a 2000m this can then be added to the rankings as an IND_V if it is good enough to require a varification.<br /><br />This would be a good first step forward.<br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 19 2006, 07:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 19 2006, 07:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 19 2006, 10:23 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 19 2006, 10:23 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You still haven't explained why Dwayne should, but people lower down the ranking should not.  Should the person in 5th place prove it?  10th? 50th?  If so, how would we manage it?  And if not, why?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Paul <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />They are not claiming one of the top 3 ranking places, or claiming to row world class times and then not performing at public races. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />But that's not your "Primary objection", which you have restated as being "Validity of ranked times."<br /><br />Perhaps invoking a real persons name was your mistake from the start.<br /><br />I could imagine a nice thread, with less emotion attached:<br />"How can we be certain that ranking times are genuine?"<br /><br />You see, it would produce much of the information that has been buried in this thread, and probably not offend anyone that has (IMO - justifiably) been offended by the original topic here.<br /><br />You could have even entered some false times under your own name and asked "Is Chad Williams fake or real?" All the while having "proof" that it had been faked, you faked it. I doubt that there would have been half the discussion before arriving at the correct conclusion. Then we all would have had a good laugh when you outed yourself regarding the experiment.<br /><br />Of course the answer appears to be: "We can't (with 100% certainty). You just have to choose to believe the times or not." Or perhaps the "Race" entries would be considered the "Truly proved times.", though that would limit it to the 2k most likely.<br />

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 19 2006, 09:54 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 19 2006, 09:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Slo_boat, round we go again.<br /><br />Dwayne’s times not having any proof to back them up is being used by me to make my point. If anybody else’s times stood out to me by showing so many inconsistencies then I would have picked their times as an example. It was done on times/distances not by an individual.<br /><br />You think I am picking on Dwayne, I am picking on the flaws in his times not him as an individual.<br />You are making a massive issue out of it when in fact it is very simple.<br /><br />Yes, things need to change but until people understand what is going on how are they going to understand that things need changing.<br /><br />I go back to the point I made a few pages ago-<br />If this poll was about Graham Benton would we be getting the same responce, the answer is no, as he has PROVED his times are for real.<br /><br />Dwayne needs to do the same. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You miss the bigger picture.<br /><br />The rankings are what they are. <br /><br />There have been many discussions about what constitutes a record or what constitutes a valid time. People on the forum are well aware of the issue.<br /><br />You are sadly mistaken if you think that the rankings really matter to other people as much as they matter to you. I expect you to glibly point out that I am saying this because I am not near the top. Well actually, there is a rower I see from time to time. He was a former collegiate rower and later a coach. He held some sort of record for the marathon. He still rows. I watched him do a few minutes at 1:55 and then 1:35 as a warm up for his workout. He does not bother with the rankings. Neither does another fellow in the gym who routinely does 8X 2:00/2:00 and 5X1000/3:00 (20 SPM) workouts as part of his cardio work out. A quick glance at the rankings will show you that entire rowing teams are missing. Most people who use the erg use it to supplement their rowing or other workouts. They do not use it as an end unto itself.<br /><br />Your continual harping about Dwayne detracts from what you claim is your real issue. We get your point. We got it 20 pages ago. Let it rest. If your intent was not to call Dwayne a liar, then acknowledge the unintended result of your inadvertent ad hominem attack, reaffirm your good intentions, and apologize to Dwayne.<br /><br />For what it is worth, I think that Dwayne is right to ignore this entire discussion.<br /><br />If you are really concerned about standards, then propose some. Then we can discuss them in a reasonable fashion instead of having this debate about whether Dwayne is a liar. I’ll even help you out by starting a different thread containing a proposal.<br />

[[old] PaulH]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 19 2006, 10:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 19 2006, 10:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 19 2006, 10:23 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 19 2006, 10:23 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You still haven't explained why Dwayne should, but people lower down the ranking should not.  Should the person in 5th place prove it?  10th? 50th?  If so, how would we manage it?  And if not, why?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Paul <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />They are not claiming one of the top 3 ranking places, or claiming to row world class times and then not performing at public races. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So what's different between the top 3 and number 4? Especially if #4 was just a tenth of a second slower?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Paul