Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[[old] michaelb]

Andreas rows regularly online on rowpro. I and many others have rowed with him online. His 19:54 was part of an online race. That is good enough for me and much better than any claimed ind-v by the PM3. I would love to see Dwayne row online too, including joining some of the races with the other super fast rowers. <br /><br />If anything comes of this nonsense, I do not want it to reduce the ability to rank results from online races.

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-Daren C+Jan 18 2006, 05:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Daren C @ Jan 18 2006, 05:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 18 2006, 03:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 18 2006, 03:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why is nobody coming forward who 've seen Adams row? he trains in gym makes lots of meters so there must be a ziljoen people who witness his worksouts. Strange strange strange.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's flawed logic, indeed. Given there are probably only 1 or 200 (yes, I'm guessing, but I think that's realistic) <i>regular</i> readers of this forum, it's not very likely that anyone reading this particular thread would ever have witnessed Dwayne training. Has anyone on this forum seen you train? Or me? (Well, OK, yes at least one has seen me training, but that's only 'cause I went to her house.) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />daren yes. I am rowing 3 months now and people on this forum have seen me. My pb 's are also don in races. So no point. Some one like adams who,s been rowing so much and so hard for years now. Did show up sometimes on races (althoug never finnised the way you would expect) but people should have seen his warm up. <br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 18 2006, 03:20 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 18 2006, 03:20 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How are you going to "prove" Andreas' time for 6k?  I believe Andreas, and have met him, but I was not there to see his performance, were you?  If so, then who are you for me to believe?  Are you now choosing to believe the 5:47.1 2k but nothing that does not have an IND_v next to it. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have meet Andreas, I have seen him row a sub 6.05 2000m. Andreas rows on-line as Michael says.<br />I have no doubt about Andreas rows, Row Pro files are great proof of a row. Andreas turns up at races and pulls the same sort of erg times as he ranks.<br /><br />I said if the 5.47.1 was confirmed and met with the C2 guidelines for the row, then I would believe it.

[[old] hjs]

Come on Dwyane erg one 500. make a picture of the outcome and all the fuss is over

[[old] TomR/the elder]

PaulH--<br /><br />The link:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... ds_all.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... asp</a><br /><br />Tom

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulH+Jan 18 2006, 03:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulH @ Jan 18 2006, 03:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But I'll take your challenge to porkchop, with only one modification.  [right] <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul, How can it be my challenge if you want to modify it, it would then become your challenge.<br /><br />I will ask Andreas for his 6K RowPro file, how are you going to prove Dwaynes 6K No.1 ranking row?<br /><br />

[[old] Daren C]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 09:06 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 09:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Andreas rows on-line as Michael says.<br /><br />Row Pro files are great proof of a row.<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />These two are complete red herrings. I could row a race online, but actually swap with someone else partway through; or I could simply allow a better erger to row under my account.<br /><br />Anyone with a little computer knowledge can forge a RowPro file, too. They're useless as far as proof of anything goes.

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Daren C+Jan 18 2006, 04:12 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Daren C @ Jan 18 2006, 04:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->These two are complete red herrings.  I could row a race online, but actually swap with someone else partway through; or I could simply allow a better erger to row under my account.<br /><br />Anyone with a little computer knowledge can forge a RowPro file, too.  They're useless as far as proof of anything goes. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So Daren, if Dwayne rowed a 2000m in 5.47.0 on-line and had a Row Pro file for it, you would not accept it as proof? Yet, if he said “I just rowed a 5.47.0” you would believe that?<br /><br />

[[old] Daren C]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 09:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 09:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Daren C+Jan 18 2006, 04:12 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Daren C @ Jan 18 2006, 04:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->These two are complete red herrings.  I could row a race online, but actually swap with someone else partway through; or I could simply allow a better erger to row under my account.<br /><br />Anyone with a little computer knowledge can forge a RowPro file, too.  They're useless as far as proof of anything goes. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So Daren, if Dwayne rowed a 2000m in 5.47.0 on-line and had a Row Pro file for it, you would not accept it as proof? Yet, if he said “I just rowed a 5.47.0” you would believe that? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If Dwayne rowed a 2000m in 5:47 online and had a RowPro file, I would believe him. However, if there was a dispute, I would not accept it as <b>proof</b> of the row, no. I take Dwayne at his word; I've never seen <i>proof</i> of any of his online ranked times. However, it doesn't concern me because there's absolutely nothing riding on it except 'bragging rights'. <br /><br /><br />

[[old] Notsofast]

Hello all,<br />After having spent what seems like hours reading over this mess, let me fix this whole thing.<br /><br />Chad,<br />I was there when Dwayne erged his 5:47.1. I was one of the five to seven people who witnessed this incredible feat. I watched Tom (the USIRT official) enter in the the distance on the erg, watched as Dwayne started his piece, watched as he struggled through it, and watched as he completed it in a heap.<br /><br />There, your proof. Now shut your trap and quit insulting everyone on this forum.<br /><br />Dave

[[old] PaulH]

<!--QuoteBegin-TomR/the elder+Jan 18 2006, 04:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Jan 18 2006, 04:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PaulH--<br /><br />The link:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... ds_all.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... asp</a><br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ah! That makes perfect sense - I don't think C2 are claiming anything in particular, they're just using whatever wording comes to mind when they're creating the page <br /><br />I had gone to this page - <a href='http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/rankings.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.com/sranking03/rankings.asp</a> - which as you can see is the same thing, only with a different wrapper, and it's just referring to 'World Ranking'.<br /><br />There's a saying about never attributing to malice that which can be explained by stupidity - in this case I think it's "don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by a developer looking at a blank web page and thinking what to write" <br /><br />Cheers, Paul

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 02:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 02:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Porkchop+Jan 18 2006, 02:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Jan 18 2006, 02:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want to put this issue in legal terms, then, as far as I can tell, you seem to be the prosecution, not the defense -- you have the burden of going forward and establishing a <i>prima facie</i> case.  What people are telling you is that you have not done so -- questions and innuendo may be effective rhetorical devices, but they are not evidence.  Yet when asked to provide evidence, you try to put the burden of proof back on the other side.<br /><br />The problem is that you purport to do one thing (question the structure and verifiablity of the ranking system) but actually do another (publicly question the records of a single individual). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> Porkchop, don't be such a drama queen. This is a internet forum not a courtroom.<br /><br />I use one "legal" term and you start sounding like a lawyer.<br /><br />I have not questioned any ones integrity. You must be sick of reading it as I am sick of typing it, I have just asked for proof.<br /><br />I have shown you holes in the system that let people add times to a ranking system that can not be proven.<br />I ask you to prove to me, as an example, that Dwayne rowed a 19.16.2 6000m as listed in the rankings and I will prove to you that Andreas Van Tonder (in 2nd place in the rankings) rowed a 19.54.8 <br /> </td></tr></table><br />As to point 1: I am lawyer. If you want to see a drama queen, look in the mirror. <br /><br />How can you possibly state with a straight face that a thread entitled "Dwayne Adams - Fake or Real?" does not question the man's integrity? <br /><br />You keep saying that you aren't questioning anyone's integrity, but you always come back to the point that D's other times (all entered under an <b><i>honor</i></b> system) seem inconsistent with the times for which you seek proof. The not-very-subtle implication is that you suspect (or perhaps even believe) that they are false. Unless the posted times are the result of typographical errors, they must have been deliberately falsified. Ergo, you question the integrity of the man who entered them. <br /><br />As to your "challenge": It would be impossible to overstate the depth of my indifference to whether you are satisfied with the system.

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Notsofast+Jan 18 2006, 04:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Notsofast @ Jan 18 2006, 04:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello all,<br />After having spent what seems like hours reading over this mess, let me fix this whole thing.<br /><br />Chad,<br />I was there when Dwayne erged his 5:47.1. I was one of the five to seven people who witnessed this incredible feat. I watched Tom (the USIRT official) enter in the the distance on the erg, watched as Dwayne started his piece, watched as he struggled through it, and watched as he completed it in a heap.<br /><br />There, your proof. Now shut your trap and quit insulting everyone on this forum.<br /><br />Dave <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />This is great news, can you post any photos of this fantastic row you witnessed? You did take a camera with you didn't you? That is what you went there for, too witness Dwayne attempt to break a World Record!!?<br /><br />Will you post them on a new thread or on this one.<br /><br />

[[old] Notsofast]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 18 2006, 04:32 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 18 2006, 04:32 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Notsofast+Jan 18 2006, 04:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Notsofast @ Jan 18 2006, 04:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello all,<br />After having spent what seems like hours reading over this mess, let me fix this whole thing.<br /><br />Chad,<br />I was there when Dwayne erged his 5:47.1. I was one of the five to seven people who witnessed this incredible feat. I watched Tom (the USIRT official) enter in the the distance on the erg, watched as Dwayne started his piece, watched as he struggled through it, and watched as he completed it in a heap.<br /><br />There, your proof. Now shut your trap and quit insulting everyone on this forum.<br /><br />Dave <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />This is great news, can you post any photos of this fantastic row you witnessed? You did take a camera with you didn't you? That is what you went there for, too witness Dwayne attempt to break a World Record!!?<br /><br />Will you post them on a new thread or on this one. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I wasn't there to witness a WR. I was there (the boathouse) finishing up my morning row. I just happened to come by as he was warming up and ask what was going on. So no, I didn't have a camera. What a twit you are. Do you happen to walk around with a camera expecting to see WRs being set? I think not.

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Porkchop+Jan 18 2006, 04:30 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Porkchop @ Jan 18 2006, 04:30 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As to point 1:  I am lawyer.  If you want to see a drama queen, look in the mirror.  <br /><br />How can you possibly state with a straight face that a thread entitled "Dwayne Adams - Fake or Real?" does not question the man's integrity?  <br /><br />You keep saying that you aren't questioning anyone's integrity, but you always come back to the point that D's other times (all entered under an <b><i>honor</i></b> system) seem inconsistent with the times for which you seek proof.  The not-very-subtle implication is that you suspect (or perhaps even believe) that they are false.  Unless the posted times are the result of typographical errors, they must have been deliberately falsified.  Ergo, you question the integrity of the man who entered them.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hey, so sue me!!