Dwyane Adams - Fake Or Real?

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 16 2006, 07:04 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 16 2006, 07:04 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Jan 16 2006, 06:39 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jan 16 2006, 06:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you look at the current 2k listings, you'll note an Ind-V after Dwayne's 6:03.  That means the submitted time was verified as correct by a code generated by the PM3.  You'll find the same verification for his 1:14.5 500m and his 2:40.5 1k.   What more proof do you need? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not how I understood it at all. I recall reading on this forum that he had it witnessed by members of a gym. C2 then called up the gym and spoke to the people involved. I would not call that an independent witness. Maybe C2 can confirm if this is how it happened?<br /><br />Let’s hear from Dwayne, does he own a PM3 with the latest firm ware? I read on this forum that he only owns a PM2.<br /><br />See, lots of confusion about it all, if he rowed in public we would all know what the real deal is. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Your understanding of his 6:03 2k this year is wrong. You have confused it with another row he did in which he went under the recognized WR but did not meet the requirements at the time for certification. IMO Dwayne subsequently has shown a great deal of class and sportsmanship in accepting the ranking verdict.<br /><br />As for his possessing a PM3 with verification capacity, how do you think he was able to supply the code for ranking his pieces? I don't know if he'd had one independently; for those of us on the IRT who didn't have one, C2 supplied them last summer.<br /><br />As for why Dwayne's 6k time for the CTC hasn't been verified, you can ask him. Maybe he rowed it on a different erg; maybe he's in the middle of training for something else and rowed through it and couldn't be bothered to rank a less-than-all-out effort. More importantly, what difference does it make to anyone?<br /><br /><br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Jan 16 2006, 07:36 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jan 16 2006, 07:36 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->how do you think he was able to supply the code for ranking his pieces? </td></tr></table><br /><br />The same way he got an IND_V for the 1:14.5 500m he rowed.<br /><br />For your information, I "quote" Dwyane.<br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... ode&st=135' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 135</a><br /><br />Is my understanding on this wrong too!!

[[old] NavigationHazard]

You are correct that it was possible circa May to get an IND_V by doing a witnessed piece on a public machine.<br /><br />Maybe C2Bill can correct me, if he reads this, but I'm under the impression that it is no longer possible. Since its introduction, the firmware supplies the verification.<br /><br />In any event, since C2 have seen fit to accept Dwayne's current-season 500m, 1k, 2k, and 5k times, their standard of 'proof' for the IND_V designation has been met however he did them. Of course you are free to impugn his character if you like, and mine for accepting his results along with C2, and to maintain your own standards.<br /><br />I will post no more on this hackneyed subject.

[[old] michaelb]

I didn't go back and read the link you provided from a previous discussion, although there have been a few in the past, including when Dwayne rowed what could have been a world record time of 5:47. That row was in public and witnessed. There were also two previous witnessed by the USIRT qualifying rows that were around 5:50 going back now 3-4 years. So yes, Dwayne Adams is one of the fastest indoor rowers in the world.<br /><br />How he can do all those meters, or row so fast for so far, I don't understand, but I don't think there is currently a basis for challenging his times. I would love to see him race in public though.

[[old] Chad Williams]

All I am aiming to do is to see if other guys in this rowing forum community see holes is his times.<br />A discussion forum is just that, a forum for discussion.<br /><br />I just find it hard to understand that a guy this fast has never been seen to produce these times and distances in a public place.<br />He has no Indoor rowing medal to his name of any sort as far as I know, yet year in and year out produces times that sit on the top of most challenge tables and ranking lists.<br />His performances are, in some cases, higher than most National level water rowers.<br /><br />I am not calling him, or anyone else a cheat or a liar, I just want it all explained to me.<br /><br />I would be interest to know if he has entered any time using the PM3 verification code.<br /><br />Dwayne, could you answer that question for me?

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 16 2006, 03:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 16 2006, 03:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am 42 years old, a reasonably fit guy. I have been rowing many years. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That alone would seem to be enough to have a better idea of what is possible on the Erg. i.e. Not be questioning the credibility of others.<br /><br />What does "reasonably fit" mean to you? I'd think perhaps you and Dwayne may have quite different ideas on that.<br /><br />Are <b>you</b> for real?

[[old] Chad Williams]

This discussion is not about me. I am also not claiming World Class erg times.<br />When this subject comes up about Dwayne, which it has done on many other occasions, you get people who defend his times but with no proof.<br /><br />If there is proof of his times then lets here all about it. Let’s see some results from races, none of this “I think he did this…..” “I think he did that…….” lets see PROOF.<br /><br />For arguments sake, let’s say Xeno is a fake. I would get shoot down in flames saying that as so much proof exists to fight his corner. Does that same proof exist for Dwayne?................or any proof at all!!?

[[old] johnnybike]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 16 2006, 06:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 16 2006, 06:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have been on this forum for many months, Yes, I registered to make this point, it is my right to free speech as an American.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Free speech, yes that old chestnut. Anybody making absurd statements that cover sexist, racist or other 'ist' views always claims free speech as their raison d'etre.<br /><br />I think I would stick to posting about rowing matters rather than thinly veiled personal attacks. Try to think of the mantra 'Am I adding value' before hitting the send button.<br /><br />PS Please no-one dig up some of my inane posts to tell me I don't follow that mantra. I never said I did <br /><br />PPS I have not voted for 2 reasons. I do not want to add credence to this concept of attacking other forum members and I cannot make my mind up between yes I believe him or I don't care.<br /><br />PPS Someone else has already asked what mwa means and I did not fully understand the answer. Is it an mnenomic for something?<br />

[[old] hennmart]

What Dwyane does is very good and I believe every meter of it; why should I doubt him. It’s not about money or something. And if he doesn’t do the things he claims to do, well it’s for his credit. But than again I believe everyone who put his/hers meters in. I think Dwyane is a great sportsman, Why lie? <br /><br />Hennie

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 16 2006, 06:30 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 16 2006, 06:30 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This discussion is not about me. I am also not claiming World Class erg times.<br />When this subject comes up about Dwayne, which it has done on many other occasions, you get people who defend his times but with no proof.<br /><br />If there is proof of his times then lets here all about it. Let’s see some results from races, none of this “I think he did this…..” “I think he did that…….” lets see PROOF.<br /><br />For arguments sake, let’s say Xeno is a fake. I would get shoot down in flames saying that as so much proof exists to fight his corner. Does that same proof exist for Dwayne?................or any proof at all!!? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />What constitutes "proof" to you? PM3 Verification Codes, Witnesses (including a USIRT official), Photographs of PM Data, video footage of the performance, Official Indoor Race results.... perhaps that would help us, help you.<br /><br />His times all line up with others I have seen, for relative intensity. Now there are others that seem to be quite out of line, i.e. exceptional long distance times with relatively weak 2k's. I often wonder how that can be, but have no reason to doubt any particular time on it's own.<br />

[[old] Mark Keating]

<!--QuoteBegin-johnnybike+Jan 16 2006, 09:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(johnnybike @ Jan 16 2006, 09:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PPS Someone else has already asked what mwa means and I did not fully understand the answer. Is it an mnenomic for something? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />My guess is that mwa = my words <i>a</i>xactly<br /><br />or perhaps mwa = my, what an arse

[[old] kinley]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have been on this forum for many months, Yes, I registered to make this point, it is my right to free speech as an American.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The first amendment to the U.S. Constitution begins "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech ....."<br /><br />Has Congress abridged your freedom of speech in this forum? If not, take responsibility for your postings, rather than blaming others for their disapproval.

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 16 2006, 06:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 16 2006, 06:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have been on this forum for many months, Yes, I registered to make this point, it is my right to free speech as an American.<br />I would be interest in other people’s views, this is a discussion forum after all.<br /><br />You have expressed your view; other people will do the same, that’s how it works. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Chad,<br /><br />Free speech and the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution have nothing to do with this discussion. The First Amendment applies only to government entities -- there is no government entity involved in this forum. In any event, no one has sought to restrain your speech, so even if there were a government entity, the First Amendment would be irrelevant. In an international forum like this, spouting off about your rights as an American (and yes, I am also one, and a lawyer to boot) only reinforces the perception of the "Ugly American."<br /><br />I don't know Dwayne Adams, and don't particularly care about his times, but, having observed this forum for a considerable period of time, it is clear that he enjoys a great deal of credibility with forum members, including those who row very well and have every reason to care about his times from a competitive standpoint. (See PaulS's post above.) It is not surprising that, when you show up in your first post questioning that credibility, other members would question your motives.

[[old] Chad Williams]

You can try all the diverting tactics you like; you will not throw me of the scent. I want proof that Dwayne Adams can pull the times he claims.<br />Why does he not row at the CRASH B’s? Why does he not row using rowing internet software, this can be used as proof. None of you can answer these questions.<br /><br />Looking at the split data from BIRC when he rowed as part of the USIRT, someone said that he hurt his back sometime after 500m, he was not even rowing at sub 6 minute pace for the first 500m of that race, when you look at his splits for his sub 5.50 his first split was his fastest, around 1:23 I believe.<br /><br />I will get a graph to prove my point, a graph from the race data at BIRC<br /><br />I can give you evidence to back my arguments, but I have nothing coming back.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 16 2006, 07:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 16 2006, 07:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You can try all the diverting tactics you like; you will not throw me of the scent. I want proof that Dwayne Adams can pull the times he claims.<br />Why does he not row at the CRASH B’s? Why does he not row using rowing internet software, this can be used as proof.  None of you can answer these questions.<br /><br />Looking at the split data from BIRC when he rowed as part of the USIRT, someone said that he hurt his back sometime after 500m, he was not even rowing at sub 6 minute pace for the first 500m of that race, when you look at his splits for his sub 5.50 his first split was his fastest, around 1:23 I believe.<br /><br />I will get a graph to prove my point, a graph from the race data at BIRC<br /><br />I can give you evidence to back my arguments, but I have nothing coming back. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Again, what are you going to consider adequate proof for Chad?<br /><br />IND_V for 500m , 1k, and 2k, seems pretty decent to me. His times are in the range of what I saw a lot of back in University. Now he is 40, but there have been other 40 somethings that have produced similar times. Maybe you should tell us why you believe the times to be so incredible that you must have proof. They would seem to be simply greater incentive for us old farts as to what the real potential is.<br /><br />Don't leave us hanging, Chad.