PM5 Issue

[SLK1966]

Is anyone else having issues with the PM5 when using a USB memory stick? My PM5 crashes after installing the stick. The monitor hangs, all buttons become inoperative and the only solution is to take the batteries out. I am running the latest firmware and the D cells are showing at 100%. I have tried using different USB sticks and the issue persists. It does not happen every time, but does happen most times I row, which is getting frustrating now. Duly reported to the guys at C2 and they have sent me a REV D battery cover to replace the REV A, apparently this is a re-design, but it does not help my monitor hanging issue.

[Wallopee]

While I cannot guarantee that you will not have any problems (monitor hangs), I have found a USB stick that seems to work well. I have tried several and this one worked the best...link below. Good luck.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/2674 ... lash_Drive

[Citroen]

There are lots of USB sticks that have an enormous surge current when you plug them in (they are out of spec for the max 500mA that a USB device should draw).

Try inserting the stick before the PM5 is woken up.
Try any other USB stick (different brand).
Try powering the PM5 through the USB-B data interface using a phone charger.

[c2scott]

Hi folks,

I just got a USB flash drive from a customer who was having trouble and was kind enough to send the troubled drive to me. What we discovered (again) is that not all flash drives are created equal. This one in particular would work for a few seconds after being powered up, then it became non-responsive. So, wipe the files on a computer, insert in PM5 and the PM5 creates the files. Go to enter a name and it won't take it. Try to edit name: No joy - monitor hangs up. When observing with the USB testing instruments we can see when it just stops responding. Fun stuff. We will look at how we can accommodate these seemingly bad behaviors, but it's not always the PM5's fault...

Best recommendation is to get the smallest (1G-16G) USB 2.0 flash drive you can get. USB 3.0 may work, but they typically power hogs and will drain battery and/or cause a "USB overload".

That said, if you see a "USB Overload", before giving up make sure your firmware is up to date (minimum firmware 22 / 722) as this does fix one issue falsely causing some USB overload issues.

- Scott

PS: A comment to Citroen: We limit the power supplied to USB sticks to less than 500mA, typically 100-200mA. The current limit chip in use is not terribly precise about where it cuts off, but should protect the PM5 somewhere in that range.

[Citroen]

I've got a Kingston 32GB USB stick that definitely exceeds the USB 500mA current limit (it crashed a Raspberry Pi when I plugged it in). I'll have try that one in a PM5.

[dexterdom]

Hi folks,

I just got a USB flash drive from a customer who was having trouble and was kind enough to send the troubled drive to me. What we discovered (again) is that not all flash drives are created equal. This one in particular would work for a few seconds after being powered up, then it became non-responsive. So, wipe the files on a computer, insert in PM5 and the PM5 creates the files. Go to enter a name and it won't take it. Try to edit name: No joy - monitor hangs up. When observing with the USB testing instruments we can see when it just stops responding. Fun stuff. We will look at how we can accommodate these seemingly bad behaviors, but it's not always the PM5's fault...

Best recommendation is to get the smallest (1G-16G) USB 2.0 flash drive you can get. USB 3.0 may work, but they typically power hogs and will drain battery and/or cause a "USB overload".

That said, if you see a "USB Overload", before giving up make sure your firmware is up to date (minimum firmware 22 / 722) as this does fix one issue falsely causing some USB overload issues.


- Scott

PS: A comment to Citroen: We limit the power supplied to USB sticks to less than 500mA, typically 100-200mA. The current limit chip in use is not terribly precise about where it cuts off, but should protect the PM5 somewhere in that range.

How am I supposed to figure out the current draw of a USB stick if the manufacturer doesn't even provide that info? I have a Kingston DTSE9H/8GBZ that works well *most* of the time with the PM5, but the specs from the Kingston website don't mention current draw. I have the PM5 plugged into a USB wall-wart (1000mA) to provide supplemental power but still get the occasional USB errors (my latest was this morning when I got a USB error when trying to end/save my session - I had to reset the PM5 and luckily it saved the workout to memory).

Here's a suggestion: Concept2 should test and "certify" a number of USB drives that will work with the PM5. As opposed to the approach of "hey customer just buy a few and hopefully one will work".

Edit: FYI - I'm on FW v22

[c2scott]

I'd like to modify my statement as I left out a few words I usually use: [my] Best recommendation is to get the smallest (1G-16G) name brand USB 2.0 flash drive you can get. USB 3.0 may work, but they typically power hogs and will drain battery and/or cause a "USB overload".

Dexterdom: I agree, you can't know the current draw from the manufacturer. Even if Concept2 were to certify sticks, nothing prevents a manufacturer from changing the chip they use inside and not changing the outside brand. These kinds of changes would invalidate the certification and yet no one would know until we got samples and went through extensive testing processes. I have an older DTSE9 (not sure if all the other digits are the same) and though it works, it is relatively slow and is 'flakey' depending on how I position it, so this may not be a good indicator of if that particular model works.

If you are reading this, have a PM5 with firmware v22/722 (or higher) and have a few different USB sticks that are still causing 'usb overload' please contact Concept2's customer support and state "I have firmware version 22 on a PM5 and multiple USB 2.0 flash drives are giving me the USB overload" and we should be able to help.

- Scott

[jackarabit]

I have a no name " 1Gig Made in Taiwan" giveaway which works reliably. Go figure!

[Mat]

Hello Scott!

The Concept2 shop is selling Log Cards für the PM3/PM4. Why is Concept2 not selling a tested and working usb stick for the PM5? This might be the easiest way to keep PM5 users satisfied. I would have no problem to buy some sticks in your shop if I could be sure they really work with my PM5.

In 2015 there came a Concept2 1GB USB flash drive with my new Model D which is working great with my PM5. Go and sell it in all Shops worldwide and (for me) everything will be fine.

Mat (from Germany)

[Carl Watts]

Not sure why so many people are persisting with a USB stick at all. Sure the PM3 and PM4 need a Logcard, that because all the internal memory can hold is 10 rows so if you want to keep track of a whole seasons rowing even a single LogCard doesn't have enough space.

How much does the internal memory hold on the PM5 ? if its like 1000 rows then you really don't need a USB stick hanging out the back anyway. If your using a rower at the Gym its different but if you own the rower then most people will not need a USB stick. Funny thing is hardly anyone even uses a LogCard in the older monitor.

If its causing constant problems, don't run one. If you want a really good LogBook and cannot do without it then get RowPro.

[Mat]

Not sure why so many people are persisting with a USB stick at all. Sure the PM3 and PM4 need a Logcard, that because all the internal memory can hold is 10 rows so if you want to keep track of a whole seasons rowing even a single LogCard doesn't have enough space.

How much does the internal memory hold on the PM5 ? if its like 1000 rows then you really don't need a USB stick hanging out the back anyway. If your using a rower at the Gym its different but if you own the rower then most people will not need a USB stick. Funny thing is hardly anyone even uses a LogCard in the older monitor.

If its causing constant problems, don't run one. If you want a really good LogBook and cannot do without it then get RowPro.

Hi Carl!

5 reasons for the usb stick:

1. I want my PM5 to remember my heart rate belt (Polar H7)
2. I want to have csv-files with the Concept2 Utility.
3. I want to have Backups of my workouts in case the PM5 has a fatal crash.
4. I want to share my Model D / PM5 with another person or my whole family.
5. I don't want to have a third party software that produces its own problems.

Mat

[Carl Watts]

Sounds like in your case your better off trying to find a PM4.

I don't see how C2 are going to resolve the USB problem, its only going to get worse with increased density sticks and USB3.0.

I can assure you "Third party" software works a lot better than "Third party" USB sticks. Somehow C2 are going to have to source a USB stick that works and sell it the same way they sell the LogCards.

The PM4 remembers the ANT+ HR belts and you just each have your own Logcard.

[Mat]

Hi Carl! Hi all together!

Well, I have a PM5 that is working. And I have two usb sticks working on my PM5. For me it's ok like it is. But I think Concept2 would solve this problem for most of us if they would provide an own usb stick.

Going back to an old PM4 is no solution for me. And I don't want to buy a log card reader, too. Then I would better save the money for the next generation PM6.

I could use ErgData or any third party tool/software... but you should understand that my family (wife and kids) don't want to care about any extra device that has to be installed or started beside the PM5. All those electronic device stuff you have to care about... Why spending all those extra time if you simply want to row and have fun? There are a lot of erg rowing Pros here who maybe want to have lots of extra data. But beside those Pros I think there are a lot of people out there who only wanna have fun on the rower for a short amount of time. If you need more time for preparation than for your workout... That's no way for me.

Mat

[Carl Watts]

Going back to an old PM4 is no solution for me. And I don't want to buy a log card reader, too. Then I would better save the money for the next generation PM6.

Mat

Depends on you total set-up, the PM4 connected to RowPro has a number of advantages, it makes uploading from the RowPro Logbook to the Concept 2 logbook easy because your already connected to the PC, you don't need a reader. Also no power to the monitor issues your connected to the PC. I don't even look at the data in RowPro any more or even use the analysis, its all about the online rowing. There are no advantages in the PM5 for me at all. Plenty of time to save for the PM6, it took 10 years to get the PM5. Technology has bought the monitor to a bit of a crossroads, it has essentially been replaced by the smart phone.