Potential Newbee Inquiry

[[old] johnnyM]

Greetings all..Lots of great info here and it seems like a great group. I'm about to purchase a rower and was out today comparing two-the Concept 2 and the WaterRower. Seeing that this is a Concept 2 forum I have a few specific questions/comments re: the Concept 2,however any feedback on the WaterRower would be greatly appreciated. <br /> I rowed years ago with an old piston rower and the workout was incredible so I'm excited about getting back into rowing. I'm drawn to the Concept 2 because of the superior monitor which I can use to save sessions, load to pc, and compare results with other C2 users. I've heard the WaterRower monitor is lacking in this area and not as good as the C2's monitor. Any feedback/comparisons on the two?<br /> I was also told the C2 was a lot longer than the WR but in the store there really wasn't that much of a differance. Also there is the noise issue.The C2 is louder. The WR isn't silent by any means,however it is a more pleasant sound.<br /> I guess my main concerns with the C2 were the lag in resistance you feel when you return to starting position and begin a new "row". The WR had consistant pull to it giving you constant tension, while I was almost jerking the C2 at the beginning of each row due to the initial lack of tension. Is this normally how it feels? and if so why?For this reason the WR seems like a smoother motion rowing experience. <br /> The other concern I have is the maintenance on the C2. Is there a lot involved because I like to keep it simple. <br /> Back to the monitor/ software question. Are you able to hook up the monitors to your pc and use simulation software for training/racing for both units, as I think you are,and if so-does one unit perform this better.<br /> The last point is that the seat on the C2 is firm in comparison to WR. This may be an issue during long sessions. Any feedback/remedies for this. I've seen some gell bike covers which may do the trick.<br /> Once again, I'm leaning towards ths C2 because of the monitor/software/community/support aspects of the product. Any info/suggestions/regarding either of the rowers would be appreciated.I'll be going through the forum in the meantime. Thanks ahead of time for your help and happy rowing. John "johnnyM"<br />

[[old] nkoffler]

Johnny-<br /><br />If you search around the forum, you'll find some threads that address this issue. Some of the common endorsements of the C2 revolve around customer service, community of users, industry standard product, quality and durability. I haven't used the other products (such as water rower) but I do know that most on-the-water rowers use C2 for their land based training. Also, I think the price-value relationship on the C2 trumps any other cardio machine out there.<br /><br />As for some of your specific questions:<br /><br />The monitor is excellent and it can be replaced/upgraded with RowPro software if you'd like. I believe you can hook up to your PC. <br /><br />As for the length of the unit, the C2 should be plenty long. The world record holder is 6'7". Don't know how tall you are but you could buy a longer slide for $50 additional.<br /><br />The C2 is louder. The Model D is an improvement over the model C but the Water Rower is reportedly much quieter. Whether this noise is an issue depends on your exercise environment.<br /><br />With regards to the 'lag in resistence', what you are experiencing is the time it takes for your stroke to catch up to the speed of the flywheel. You'll get quicker at the catch and this won't be an issue. This is a better simulation of on-the-water rowing as you need to pull your oar faster than the apparent speed of the water in order to make the boat go. <br /><br />As for the seat, you can get various pads but you'll get used to the firmness. This is a frequent complaint with lots of rememdies to combat (sometimes adequately).<br /><br />Maintenance is easy. Wipe off the rail after each session. Rub a rag with a few drops of oil on the chain a few times a year. Vacuum out the housing once a year and check the tightness of the fittings at the same time.<br /><br />Obviously, we are all C2 adherents here but I would say the only things arguing for the Water Rower are the quiet and the aesthetics of the wood. <br /><br />Finally, if you can find room for the C2 slides, nothing can beat the C2 on slides.<br /><br />Good luck,<br /><br />Neil<br /><br />

[[old] zim32805]

<!--QuoteBegin-johnnyM+Feb 14 2005, 04:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(johnnyM @ Feb 14 2005, 04:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Greetings all..Lots of great info here and it seems like a great group. I'm about to purchase a rower and was out today comparing two-the Concept 2 and the WaterRower. Seeing that this is a Concept 2 forum I have a few specific questions/comments re: the Concept 2,however any feedback on the WaterRower would be greatly appreciated. <br />    I rowed years ago with an old piston rower and the workout was incredible so I'm excited about getting back into rowing. I'm drawn to the Concept 2 because of the superior monitor which I can use to save sessions, load to pc, and compare results with other C2 users. I've heard the WaterRower monitor is lacking in this area and not as good as the C2's monitor. Any feedback/comparisons on the two?<br />    I was also told the C2 was a lot longer than the WR but in the store there really wasn't that much of a differance. Also there is the noise issue.The C2 is louder. The WR isn't silent by any means,however it is a more pleasant sound.<br />    I guess my main concerns with the C2 were the lag in resistance you feel when you return to starting position and begin a new "row". The WR had consistant pull to it giving you constant tension, while I was almost jerking the C2 at the beginning of each row due to the initial lack of tension. Is this normally how it feels? and if so why?For this reason the WR seems like a smoother motion rowing experience. <br />    The other concern I have is the maintenance on the C2. Is there a lot involved because I like to keep it simple. <br />    Back to the monitor/ software question. Are you able to hook up the monitors to your pc and use simulation software for training/racing for both units, as I think you are,and if so-does one unit perform this better.<br />  The last point is that the seat on the C2 is firm in comparison to WR. This may be an issue during long sessions. Any feedback/remedies for this. I've seen some gell bike covers which may do the trick.<br />  Once again, I'm leaning towards ths C2 because of the monitor/software/community/support aspects of the product. Any info/suggestions/regarding either of the rowers would be appreciated.I'll be going through the forum in the meantime. Thanks ahead of time for your help and happy rowing.          John      "johnnyM" <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I own both and have no negatives about either. You can hang clothes easily on either one. (Just kiddding). <br /><br />With time and use either machine will give you the lag you speak of (as will most strength machines) Usually do to normal wear on parts. You just have to keep up with maintainance. <br /><br />I don't use the monitor on either because I find both to be not so accurate. I do use regular time (30 minutes or so) and my target heart rate. Use your watch to count carotid pulse rate for 6 seconds and multiply by 10. Its very accurate and keeps you in your desired zone. While community support is nice, I don't see it as necessary to exercise. I get on the rower, relax mentally, and row until I'm tired. I'm 56 years old and 11% bodyfat. Works for me anyway. Both machines are terrific. Both of mine are about 15 years old. Concept 2 was the second version and the Waterrower was their first. Both are a bit faded but have served me very well. Both are worth the price. Good luck.

[[old] FrancoisA]

Johnny,<br /><br />I was in the same situation as you almost two years ago.<br />Someone asked a similar question in Jan 05; take a look at this <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... =1269&st=0' target='_blank'>thread.</a><br /><br />Regards.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-zim32805+Nov 11 2005, 08:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(zim32805 @ Nov 11 2005, 08:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I own both and have no negatives about either.  You can hang clothes easily on either one. (Just kiddding).  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The Soloflex is by far the best clothes hanger. <br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't use the monitor on either because I find both to  be not so accurate. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Even a Model B w/PM1 (your configuration unless you have upgraded the PM) is a far more objective measure of our effort than our perception and HR will ever be. maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant by "not so accurate".<br /><br />The Water Rower is not objective by any measure, as it's "pace" was determined by stroke rate only and that, as we know, has no linear relationship to "Pace" or energy input.<br /><br />Zim, you would probably really like the quietness of the Model D, but as a testament to the Model B's durability it's doubtful that you by any means would need to change.

[[old] zim32805]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Nov 11 2005, 01:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 11 2005, 01:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-zim32805+Nov 11 2005, 08:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(zim32805 @ Nov 11 2005, 08:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I own both and have no negatives about either.  You can hang clothes easily on either one. (Just kiddding).  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The Soloflex is by far the best clothes hanger. <br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't use the monitor on either because I find both to  be not so accurate. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Even a Model B w/PM1 (your configuration unless you have upgraded the PM) is a far more objective measure of our effort than our perception and HR will ever be. maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant by "not so accurate".<br /><br />The Water Rower is not objective by any measure, as it's "pace" was determined by stroke rate only and that, as we know, has no linear relationship to "Pace" or energy input.<br /><br />Zim, you would probably really like the quietness of the Model D, but as a testament to the Model B's durability it's doubtful that you by any means would need to change. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Please bear in mind that the monitors I have are so old that I have to find the old style "hearing aid" batteries for power. I'm sure the new monitors are much more friendly and easy to read. Innacurate was a poor choice of words when I should have said "hard to see". <br /><br />I will look at the model you suggest. Though durable, over the years, the inevitable perspiration, etc, has taken its toll even after wiping everything down thoroughly after every session. I am rather attached (like an old volvo) but will one day purchase a new rower or two and donate my old one(s) to a high school rowing program. The Waterrower is tough to get parts for and is a downfall. <br /><br />I must agree that the Soloflex or Bowflex is a better clothes storage device.<br /><br />Speaking of storage, will there be in the future, a Concept rower that I can store upright ala Waterrower?

[[old] rspenger]

<!--QuoteBegin-zim32805+Nov 11 2005, 06:24 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(zim32805 @ Nov 11 2005, 06:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Speaking of storage,  will there be in the future, a Concept rower that I can store upright ala Waterrower? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As I understand it, that "future" has been around for a couple of years. I have seen Ds stood up against a wall. I believe that they were also folded. I have no first hand knowledge of the details either Cs or Ds. They are certainly prettier and quieter than my old B, but whether or not they will match its durability remains to be seen. I was sort of freaked out when I saw how much the D flexes in use. The B is rock solid - but maybe that is a disadvantage.<br /><br />Bob S.

[[old] johnnybike]

<!--QuoteBegin-zim32805+Nov 11 2005, 11:16 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(zim32805 @ Nov 11 2005, 11:16 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->  While community support is nice, I don't see it as necessary to exercise.  </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. But if the user community and the ongoing support and challenges did not exist then I for one would struggle to lack the motivation.<br />Probably the best part of getting a PB is posting the details and seeing your virtual training partners comment.<br /><br />If I was left to my own devices on the C2 I would not have made half as much progress, made so many new friends (some virtual, some not) or be putting in the same times that I am now.<br /><br />I don't know about the waterower but the C2 is the one for me<br /><br />John

[[old] zim32805]

<!--QuoteBegin-rspenger+Nov 12 2005, 12:42 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(rspenger @ Nov 12 2005, 12:42 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-zim32805+Nov 11 2005, 06:24 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(zim32805 @ Nov 11 2005, 06:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Speaking of storage,  will there be in the future, a Concept rower that I can store upright ala Waterrower? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As I understand it, that "future" has been around for a couple of years. I have seen Ds stood up against a wall. I believe that they were also folded. I have no first hand knowledge of the details either Cs or Ds. They are certainly prettier and quieter than my old B, but whether or not they will match its durability remains to be seen. I was sort of freaked out when I saw how much the D flexes in use. The B is rock solid - but maybe that is a disadvantage.<br /><br />Bob S. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I guess I could have gone to the C2 website BEFORE I asked the dumb question. Wow!<br />The new ones look a lot different. The challenge will be to find a gym that has a new one and has maintained it so I can try one out. Of course, I'm attached to my original and if I had one that stood up, my wife would use the space for something stupid like a nordic trac.