Over Lapping Hands

[[old] Hal Morgan]

I am just beginning to on water row. What is the purpose of overlapping hands. I have wishing that I did not have to overlap my hands. If there is more of a reason than just because, I might try to adjust so that my hands are not over lapped.

[[old] gorow9]

If your hands didn't overlap at hands away imagine how far apparth they'd be during the layback. That would present some problems so the idea is to get the best out of both worlds I think. I know it can present a problem with occasional snags of the skin on your right hand but hopefully that won't be too much of a problem. Also the oars wouldn't be able to reach as far and voer all the stroke would be shorter. <br /><br />I think...<br />~Sara~

[[old] Xeno]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hal Morgan+Sep 11 2005, 09:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Hal Morgan @ Sep 11 2005, 09:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am just beginning to on water row. What is the purpose of overlapping hands. I have wishing that I did not have to overlap my hands. If there is more of a reason than just because, I might try to adjust so that my hands are not over lapped. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Hi <br />Hands overlap because the distance of the oarlocks is smaller than the sum of the inboard part of the sculling oars. If you row recreationally you can rig the boat anyway you want. If you go for speed you want to have a longer inboard to lever the boat into speed at the catch (beginning) of the stroke. I hope I did not confuse you further. There are books written about rigging and I am not giving this subject the respect it derserves with a two liner comment.<br />Good luck,<br />XENO

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hal Morgan+Sep 11 2005, 07:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Hal Morgan @ Sep 11 2005, 07:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am just beginning to on water row. What is the purpose of overlapping hands. I have wishing that I did not have to overlap my hands. If there is more of a reason than just because, I might try to adjust so that my hands are not over lapped. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />When you shorten the inboard length, you will be shortening the lever arm that you are working on, something that would be referred to as "increasing your gearing" (As long as you maintain the same linear stroke length). This means that you will encounter a higher resistance if trying to get through the same distance at the same speed. An analogous situation would be to increase the DF on the Erg. Make small changes as you go, so that you minimize your risk of injury.<br /><br />But as Xeno says, if you want to go fast, you will need to keep the overlap. Check with someone in your boathouse to make sure that the rigging is set up properly for the clearance you will need. i.e. For "left over right" the port oarlock height will be lower than the Starboard to allow for equal blade heights while the hands have room to be offset during the stroke.

[[old] Hal Morgan]

There are books written about rigging and I am not giving this subject the respect it derserves with a two liner comment.<br /><br /><br />I am reading the book your metioned in another forum. rowing faster. <br /><br />I have rowed other water craft. This is the first time I have over lapped my hands. My handds a arguing. I really don't want to go that fast, I however want to do it the best I can. So I must over lap. I also ordered nuts and bolts of rigging.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />I thought a good tee shirt would be since I tipped over until I adjusted my rigging. "Tipping, optional, not required." <br /><br /><br />

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi Hal,<br /><br />I'm in the same boat. This is my first year rowing on the water, but I have found that keeping the left hand just a little ahead of the right hand seems to make the crossover easier, keeping the hands closer to the same level, and keeping the boat set easier. From the discussion by Richardson, it appears he is saying you have a choice. As I said, I'm just a novice on the water. I'm trying to master the square blade paddling exercise right now. Isn't it something how the really good rowers make sculling look so easy? It ain't.<br /><br />Let me point you to a couple of interesting quotes from that book (Rowing Faster, edited by Volker Nolte, copyright 2005. <br /><br />From page 156, by Richardson:<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If the sculler rows with the left hand slightly higher and closer to the stern than the right hand, then the left shoulder is slightly closer to the stern than the right shoulder (see figure 13.2 This position helps the athlete with the hands at the crossover position. </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Later on the same page <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When scullers row with one hand directly on top of the other, the shoulders are square to the centerline of the boat, but the height difference of the hands is quite substantial. </td></tr></table> <br /><br />On page 149, by Spracklen:<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The hands have to cross during both the power phase and the recovery phase. To keep the boat level, one hand moves ahead of the other. </td></tr></table> <br /><br />If you look at the photo in the section on rigging, page 129, it looks like the rower does row with the left hand ahead of the right hand. But I don't know for sure. Maybe it was the angle the photo was taken from, or maybe it wasn't a perfect stroke.<br /><br /><br />Byron<br />

[[old] Hal Morgan]

<br /><br /><br /><br />"Hi Hal,<br /><br />I'm in the same boat. "<br /><br />have you been tearing the skin off your knuckles of your right hand?

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hal Morgan+Sep 13 2005, 06:38 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Hal Morgan @ Sep 13 2005, 06:38 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Hi Hal,<br /><br />I'm in the same boat. "<br /><br />have you been tearing the skin off your knuckles of your right hand? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hal,<br /><br />The hands should be offset, not only over and under, but also front to back.<br /><br />Put your hands in front of you (held as if grasping scull handles), place the first knuckle of your right index finger (the one nearest your wrist) at the base of your left thumb. Notice that your left fingernails can not slice off your left knuckle skin in this position even when the hands will be sliding across eachother during the middle of the stroke. This is the "front to back" offset. It is also in the area of the correct top to bottom offset, though that can vary depending on your individual comfort. Note that, if you are rigged so your hands do lightly touch at cross-over (when the boat is set) at least you know where they are relative to each other. If they do not touch, it will be more difficult to manage them independently.<br />

[[old] Byron Drachman]

I'm doing what Paul said, and as soon as I started keeping the left hand a little in front of the right, but still touching at crossover, the deep gouges and cuts on my right knuckles went away, never to be seen again. And as I said, I find it much easier to keep the boat set now.<br /><br />Byron

[[old] Hal Morgan]

<br /><br />Byron<br /><br />that is a killer bike you are riding. what is the web address for such a bike?<br /><br />I will try the hands postion this week. much abliged to all who have helped.<br /><br />Hal Morgan

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->that is a killer bike you are riding. what is the web address for such a bike? </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Hi Hal,<br /><br />Here is a discussion about it, which includes a link to the website <br /><br /><a href='http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle/irishmail.html' target='_blank'>http://www.math.msu.edu/~drachman/cycle ... tml</a><br /><br />Here is a direct link to the company that makes them:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.champiot.com' target='_blank'>http://www.champiot.com</a><br /><br />If you go to my discussion, you will see that my brother is even nuttier than I am on the subject. <br /><br />Byron

[[old] Cran]

I always coach left in front of right, but I recently noticed that I actually do right in front of left myself... <br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Cran+Sep 13 2005, 12:37 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Cran @ Sep 13 2005, 12:37 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I always coach left in front of right, but I recently noticed that I actually do right in front of left myself...    <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It all depends on which direction you are considering "in front".

[[old] Cran]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It all depends on which direction you are considering "in front". </td></tr></table><br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Cran+Sep 14 2005, 12:25 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Cran @ Sep 14 2005, 12:25 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It all depends on which direction you are considering "in front". </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well? Is the hand "in front" closer to your body or farther away? I'd say it was farther away. Even more confusing, some folks have the right hand closer to the body on the drive and farther away on the recovery.<br /><br />Many ways to skin the cat I suppose, but there is always still a best way.