Sprints and Stuff- training/questions 1k and below

[left coaster]

HD's suck. Shawn, you may find this brain science bit interesting

Check the findings presented at 44:45. I've been in touch with the author, he wrote up this finding, along with several others from the same study, over the holidays for publication. Hopefully the article is in press soon -- the time to exhaustion between groups at time B looks to be a 'mental' thing, like mental 'toughness' but more likely improved mental metabolic endurance. I think it is quite relevant for sprinting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP_j-9YMnWM

[PowerRower]

Sean, next week man. Ill do it again very soon. Was just a poor morning. I have no doubt the next attempt will be faster

[Tim K.]

I am a passenger on a road trip with time to kill. A random thought: assuming a 2M is 200 strokes or so, rating at 30 instead of 34 would mean 28 less strokes on a 7:00 2K (I'm waiting for Bob to tell me my crude analysis is wrong and it probably is). If so, I would think that building power sufficient to do a target split at a lower rating would have advantages, so long as the effort to pull that stroke is not too great as to tucker one out too soon. 28 strokes is close to 250 meters!? Be gentle, I'm more of a creative type not a math type.

You need to remember that the flywheel slows down when you're not applying force on it (i.e. pulling on the handle). So the slower the stroke rate, the more time the flywheel spends slowing down, which means that you have to pull with that much more force per stroke for the same split compared to a higher rating.

In other words, it's just not an efficient way to row/erg. Higher stroke rate is always better, at least from a physics standpoint. If you could rate 40 for a whole 2k at a steady split, it's going to be much easier than trying to hit the same time than if you rated a 30 because the flywheel keeps getting accelerated constantly without decelerating as much as at the lower spm.

Same on a bike - you don't see any Tour de France guys riding at low cadences (e.g. 60 rpm) on a level surface. It's jut not an efficient way to go fast. Same on the erg.

This is a great explanation Armando, thanks. It seems I may have some more top end capacity on the sprints if I focus on rating higher and keeping the wheel spinning as fast as possible. I usually pull a df around 120 and have used this for all my sprints, I can definitely move fast at this drag but I don't think I've ever rated above 40. It makes sense that this rate would force a compressed stroke.

I also appreciate PowerRower's comment, I saw somewhere else that I should be able to reach peak power by the 5th stroke "not the fourth, not the sixth" is how I think it was stated. I'll play around with the DF with this in mind i.e. have just the right balance so I can be at peak power by the 5th stroke. I'm leg dominant though, not sure how this will play in to stroke length... any thoughts?

Sorry for quoting the whole thing but it is all relevant to my question.

I think by now most everyone knows Im shorter. Im 5'6" and weigh 155lbs. I have a real difficult reaching anything over 40spm, regardless of damper setting. I have been working on trying to increase rate, so far to no avail. If damper setting is set to DF 120, peak power is around 520W. As damper setting increases, power increases all the way up to DF 200 where I max out at 680W with stroke rate the same for both and from video it appears stroke length is the same (again, Concept2 and Row Pro, it would sure be nice to be able to analyze the stroke with a force/distance graph!)

My question is: Should I keep drag lower and work from there (even though output is lower), or should I use max drag and work on increasing peak power?

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Use whatever drag factor feels most comfortable for you - there is no "right" or "wrong drag factor". The lower the df, the faster your spm need to be and vice-versa. It's like a bicycle - there's all sort of gears and there isn't one that is right for everyone or all situations - it's a matter of what works for you.

I'd go for the df that allows you to generate the most power per stroke at your race rate.

[Shawn Baker]

These were all done on max drag- was thinking rate 20 and 1:45 ish- actually easier than I thought (last rep was 1:38.4 r 20)

Back home at high altitude, disappointed not to be able to get a 1k done, but I'll be back to California in a few weeks and I'll bring my own rower and try again- next few weeks I'll continue a 1k focus

[Shawn Baker]

2nd wkout today

1k w/u

Did a 750m but left drag a max



Stroke rate fairly low 32 and technically a 750m PB (although not a max effort- prob 1:25 ish is likely close to max (maybe 1:24)

Felt much better at higher drag- no much fade at the end and I always feel I can grind out more power versus upping rate at end

Another 1k cool down then

Next combined high box squats 405lbs x 10 reps with 15 sec Airdyne bike sprints- legs were cooked by the end

Finished with 1k row

[Shawn Baker]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BC5BU1jDWxb ... loch&hl=en

Sam Loch's latest 1k effort 2:42- looks like he or Ross will raise the 1k bar very shortly

[Shawn Baker]

2500 m wu



Max drag (down to 1:07)

80lb KB swings x 20/20 hanging leg raises (knees to elbows)-- 3 sets

[PowerRower]

Shawn that is crazy fast man. Good job.

[Shawn Baker]

Am fasted!



Target was 1:45.0 at 20 spm- got it but was fairly tough- broke down mentally on rep 5 and had to dig hard on last rep- DF was max, this was strapless

Overall not too bad- hopefully more later tonight

Ross Thanks, not in your league but not awful for an "oldish" dude

[Balkan boy]

I did that 6x750m this morning. The sixth interval is a bitch.
My time is about 5s slower and at rate 32.
What is the idea with the low rate and high drag?

[Shawn Baker]

The high altitude here (5500ft) makes it harder for me to work as hard as I could at sea level, upping drag (in this case fan cover off DF around 290) adds to workload without me quitting due to respiratory fatigue (this was the theory that Xeno Müller promulgated for me when I was training with him)- also I like breaking the low rate work up, rather than just going out and rowing 5k straight- I can handle it better from a mental standpoint

[Shawn Baker]

Threw down 1210 watts today (1:06.1), almost in 1:05s- power starting to come back a bit- getting better sleep, possibly training max drag again?- my best is 1234 (think I might be able to improve, hopefully)

Did some hang power snatches up to 185lbs, then down to 155lbs for 20 singles

Finished with 20lb med ball slams (overhead to ground) 3 sets of 10- trying to put a hole in the ground (slamming the "f" out of it!!)

Good one!! (Also this was done on less than 20gm of carbohydrate today!!)

[G-dub]

Nice

[left coaster]

Took some input from the group and figured out a max stroke rate and the df that has me at max watts by the 5th stroke.

Dropped the df town to about 100 and pulled a 2k warmup @ 7:42, sr 27. I then did a few sr pace sets @ df 100 and determined I can scream away at 55 sr for 250 meters easily, might even be able to hold on to that for a full 500 but will try that another day.

I then did a series of full power x 8 strokes to determine the best df to hit max watts by the 5th stroke. Turns out a df of 150 is the number, this is up from the 125 I have been using for most of my stuff.

I then did a series of 100m sprints, starting at the low df of 100 and working back up to 150 while keeping the sr above 50. On the last of 4, with the df back at 150, I hit 16.4, just a tenth off my pb for this distance -- my sr fell off though from 55 on all the previous to 50 on this last one although it looked like my overall power might have been higher, perhaps this is my imagination. Considering I had already done a dozen standing start sprint type things by then, I should be able to pull harder and to maintain the 55 sr on my next attempt at this distance.

My takeaway, on the 100m test distance using the df that has me at max power by the 5th stroke is fastest, although holding my sr at that resistance was more difficult. Goal: maintain sr of 55 while at df of 150 to beat my previous 100m pr of 16.3.

I'm going to start looking at the 1 minute time/distance bit through a similar lens. I'm thinking a sr target of 47 seems about right for this distance.