UT2/Polarization (trying to move this from PB thread)

[hjs]

I agree it is too tough for me, but for an elite college age woman athlete who is expected to improve rapidly, I think the tables are right. And that's who it was designed for.

The tables more or less came from MC own training. And he was a slow fiber guy.
People who still rapidly improve will get around it yes. Simply by improving, for mature ergers its not so easy.

[Balkan boy]

But g-dub, you're right that caviston is not a proponent of HR based training, at least he wasn't back when he created the WP.

From the old WP thread:
http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 345#p60219

MIke Caviston:
I would <b>never</b> alter the pace of a given workout based on HR response.

I'm reading that old tread at the moment.
It's incredible how the WP is still misunderstood today as it was 10-12 years ago.

For me, L4s can be UT2 or UT1 depending on the sequence and duration.

[jackarabit]

I generally find that what I can't do, won't do, and hate to do is what I need to be doing. Reading Henry I begin to wonder if my deconditioned geriatric decrepitude is what made Pete Plan relatively "palatable" to me? Sort of like saying one can tolerate huge volumes of not much anything--like eating cheese puffs.

[jackarabit]

BB, who said a thing about capping HR for L4s? Wasn't I. Don't think it was MF either altho he doesn't like throwing his 4:1 rule out of whack by including too much of it. I don't care about fast recovery or a predictable interval of recovery. If an hour of L4 kicks my butt, I'll sit on it until I can go again. Not got my knickers in a twist trying to divide my energy between 4 days of this and 3 of that. Old farts can do just as they please.

[mdpfirrman]

I've read some of Mike's stuff on the Navy Seals training site too. He's certainly a bad ass guy. Wolverine L4 will certainly build mental focus and concentration skills, that's why I'm at least trying to mix some in and not discounting it. Now that I'm hitting my prescribed paces for the lower rate stuff pretty consistently, I am much better at stroke rate rowing by feel. I don't have a problem hitting the numbers he prescribed. He specifically was very emphatic about hitting those rates (or very very close). From that thread it's very clear he sees the L4 as a hard strength workout (he even makes the comment about not being able to get athletes to do 2000 reps with a dumbbell but you can do it in a boat.

By working it in and at the same time keeping it slower and using 10 minute pieces between recovery 10 minute rows I'm able to keep my HR from creeping too high in to the UT1 zone (it's more higher end UT2).

After reading Maffetone and also a lot from Matt Fitzgerald (auther of 20/20 Running and a guy that sourced a lot of the same research Greg cites), according to them my HR ideal is roughly 125 to 135, with it being better if I work around low 130s.

[Balkan boy]

Biggest surprise I found in that old thread was that ten years ago hjs could spell perfectly and write coherent sentences.
Now it takes me three passes to figure out what he's trying to say.

[hjs]

Biggest surprise I found in that old thread was that ten years ago hjs could spell perfectly and write coherent sentences.
Now it takes me three passes to figure out what he's trying to say.

That does old age to you Or it was a copycat prequal.

[Bob S.]

Maybe they moved the edit button when the forum venue was changed and Henry couldn't find it in the new system.

[hjs]

Maybe they moved the edit button when the forum venue was changed and Henry couldn't find it in the new system.

Who knows..

[bisqeet]

What's a good sprint try program to complement the ut2 rows.
I currently do 5-6 hm's week. Is still winter,so this is my only fitness, summer will be reduced (swimming, OTWand mountainous)
4 are ut2 (r20 - 2:05-2:07, HR 130-135)
1 l4 R18-R24. @10w-12W/spi
1 lb R16- R20 @10 - 12 W/spi

I was thinking about 10x 20sec? Something like that?

[christopherregisryan]

What's a good sprint try program to complement the ut2 rows.

I used a rotation of 4x500 w 5', 5x375 w 5', 8x250 w 3.5' this year when I sought to polarize. All done at one to four splits faster than 1k pace. I found this speed fast enough to burn, but reasonable enough to maintain good form. Best. - Chris

[mdpfirrman]

Off topic but hope the surgery went well Dean! Chris is certainly more experienced (and successful) than I am. I just made up one yesterday of 1000 / 800 / 600 / 400 / 200 / 100 and had some fun with it. Normal PP speed intervals are 4000, this was 2100. Just guesstimated around how much rest I would need (roughly like 1:30 per 250). I'm doing short of what PP prescribed so I can also get some UT2 work in that day also (as WU and cool down). Came home and figured out when entering I had broken my PB 1000 by five seconds.

[Mike Caviston]

It's incredible how the WP is still misunderstood today as it was 10-12 years ago.

That is true. For example:

From that thread it's very clear he sees the L4 as a hard strength workout (he even makes the comment about not being able to get athletes to do 2000 reps with a dumbbell but you can do it in a boat.

L4 is endurance training, not strength training. A L4 workout may have more than 1000 continuous strokes; if you lifted a dumbbell 1000 times without stopping you would not be training strength.

The L4 tables aren't perfect for everyone but if you have an accurate 2K for reference they work very well. Of course, if you just dabble and don't train with them consistently and systematically, as intended, your experience may vary.

[lindsayh]

What's a good sprint try program to complement the ut2 rows.
I currently do 5-6 hm's week. Is still winter,so this is my only fitness, summer will be reduced (swimming, OTWand mountainous)
4 are ut2 (r20 - 2:05-2:07, HR 130-135)
1 l4 R18-R24. @10w-12W/spi
1 lb R16- R20 @10 - 12 W/spi
I was thinking about 10x 20sec? Something like that?

There is quite a bit of discussion in the sprint training thread just below here on this stuff including power building and the like

[bisqeet]

Off topic but hope the surgery went well Dean! Chris is certainly more experienced (and successful) than I am. I just made up one yesterday of 1000 / 800 / 600 / 400 / 200 / 100 and had some fun with it. Normal PP speed intervals are 4000, this was 2100. Just guesstimated around how much rest I would need (roughly like 1:30 per 250). I'm doing short of what PP prescribed so I can also get some UT2 work in that day also (as WU and cool down). Came home and figured out when entering I had broken my PB 1000 by five seconds.

thanks for asking, Mike.
yeh - OP went ok.
Meniscus was sewn back together, a bit of cartlidge removed. Went for a walk without crutches, but it was a little painfull on Friday.
Sat on the rower yesterday, managed about 3/10 slide (knee about 120°inside angle) to about 6/10 after a while without any discomfort. was a bit wary about pushing too much, so it was more or less loose.
not a tidy row (10k R24 @2:00) but it felt good.
funnily no pain, definetly less than walking (too much snow here - scared of slipping).

Back OT:
so you reccomend dumping a session completely and replacing it
i was thinking about doing it later in the year (i was thinking about going to boston in 2017), but didn't see the point of starting early.
more in the regions of just training the twitch muscles at the end of an UT2.