New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[bisqeet]

... However, exorcising the beer gut just hasn’t been happening with treadmill based cardio,....

rituala romanum might be better - sorry couldn't resist

[zacclowes]

new 2k pb
7:10.4 nearly ten seconds faster than my previous best.

have had a heavy amount of work work this week, missed a lot of sleep and have eaten junk..... was tempted to skip this session but it went well. first interval was fairly easy going. second one seemed like it lasted more like 20 minutes but the pace was manageable.

final interval i was thinking i wanted 7:15 before i started but was a bit unsure if i'd hold the 1:48.8, have been using around that pace for 1500 intervals that I've done a few times since my last 2k ones those intervals must have paid off. first 400ish metres were a bit up and down jumping from 1:47-1:50 but after that i settled into steady pulls of 1:48-1:49. after the halfway point i new i had it and picked up the pace a bit, finished really strong with a good sprint wth 150m to go.

[Cyclingman1]

So much stuff:

The world of rowing is very focused on 2000m; used to be 2500m. That is just a fact. Some OTW special events are much longer. Virtually all of us in these forums are ultimately interested in how to get better at 2K. Doing well at 100m, 1min, and even 500m is interesting, but is an oddity and mostly irrelevant. It does seem that persons from power disciplines have carved out a special niche in those shorter distances. And of course power weightlifting dominates their contributions. Rowers too lift weights, but is more a tool than the focus. Perhaps another thread is needed for those who have no interest in mainstream rowing/erging and training to get better in such.

The need for intensity is no big revelation. In all the years that I’ve been doing endurance events in running, cycling, and rowing, training has always consisted of LSD, tempo work (close to race distance, but a little slower), and intervals of varying distances depending on length of race. HIIT has never been part of that training. That is just a cross-fit stunt. 400m and/or 800m intervals definitely can improve VO2Max, as well as anaerobic threshold. VO2Max has never been a precise predictor of athletic performance; it is a suggestion. While intensity of training has obvious benefits, it has not been mentioned that weightlifting and/or bodybuilding can have deleterious effects on the heart. While LSD only is not an ideal training regimen, one would have to be skeptical that it induces heart difficulties.

I don’t think it is acknowledged that higher fat diets are better than high carbohydrate diets. Advocates for either abound. Long endurance athletes do well on high carb diets.

[Shawn Baker]

Yes, lots of interesting stuff being discussed!

Jim, regarding relevance of certain distances- just looking at last years stuff 5,000+ people bothered to rank a 500m time, contrast that with only 2,000 ranking the half marathon- the 2k garnered 13k entries

As none of us make a living erging, most of us are doing it for health benefits, competitive outlet or just because they enjoy it. I guess we could say we need a separate area to post for short distances, a 2k specific thread and a long distance thread but I don't think most of us care- I'm just as happy to see someone PB a 100m as I am to see someone hit a 100,000 m PB- it's all impressive and great to see!

We all have different biases regarding what we feel make the most sense from a training and competition perspective- while Henry thinks I sprint too much- I have managed to put up the best or among the best times in the world for my age from every distance (despite nearly aging out of the class and performing at 5000ft altitude) from 100m-1k - I guess I could argue the proof is in the pudding- results matter.

Vo2 Max is only 1 facet of health and is arguably trained a number of different ways- preserving strength and muscle mass is also associated with longevity and improved quality of life as we age- personally I find it very hard to maintain it unless I train it fairly intensely- a few Pushups here and there just doesn't cut it for me.

The diet stuff is a very long discussion that probably doesn't need to take place here.

As far as the "bigorexia" reference - I'm just going to say I am vehemently opposed to steroid usage and also largely disagree with the whole low testosterone supplementation/ andropause stuff. Far, far better to eat a healthy diet and train intensely, manage stress and get enough sleep!

Lee, sounds like you must be a cardiac perfusionist- you probably have worked with my ex when she was still doing cardiac anesthesia.

[left coaster]

That's starting to get to my original question, I like the 'idea' of interval training in the 400-1000m range tapping both VO2 max and anaerobic. Does anyone have a reference or other scientific evidence to support this idea? Thinking I'll set some time aside to do a lit search on this.

We all have different goals, mine is aging and longevity. Like a previous poster who is looking for work as a physio, I am also interested in interventions and making informed recommendations re lifestyle activities for the folks I serve. Many people simply don't have the motivation to train for the sake of training, they need a goal. Also, many folks want to know the shortest path that involves the least amount of effort and time to reach that goal. If I'm honest, so do I...

Sorry for my contribution to Hijacking this thread. If a mod wants to pull the relevant posts and compile them in another thread I would fully support this. If not, I think it's time I stop posting here so the thread can return to its original purpose.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

That's starting to get to my original question, I like the 'idea' of interval training in the 400-1000m range tapping both VO2 max and anaerobic. Does anyone have a reference or other scientific evidence to support this idea? Thinking I'll set some time aside to do a lit search on this.

Scientific/reference to support what idea exactly? That interval training in the 400-1000m range is... what? You left the question a little bit open ended so it's hard to give you an answer. What exactly are you looking for?

[RBFC]

I agree that this forum is not the place to have this discussion. I will state that I am disappointed in the attitude of a few posters who feel they own this section of this rowing forum, and pooh-pooh those who enter with different uses for the erg. The erg is limited by its efficiency, it does not produce impact forces that stimulate bone density increases. It is absolute solid science that maintenance/increase in muscle mass supports better quality of life during aging. Whether cycling or erging, whether using LSD/tempo/sprint work, the work environment is not suited to increases in bone density nor increases in muscle mass (certainly over age 40-50). Unfortunately, anecdotal dedication to a specific methodology causes mean-spirited posts that merely serve to drive others away. Those who've invested much in one method are always the most adamant about defending themselves. Sad....

Shawn, I have met your ex many times, but work at Presbyterian. Spent 15 years senior staff at the Cleveland Clinic before coming to ABQ. I wish you great luck and success in your training & health. I won't be posting here any more, as it's a waste of time climbing up a muddy slope:

Lee

[Cyclingman1]

Please, keep in mind that my postings are mere fragments of my thoughts on these subjects. I'm not going to post a book. I'm hardly surprised of more 500m postings than HM. Anyone can manage to get to the finish line for 500m. No so for HM - at least not without a whole lot more discomfort. I don't have a problem with people doing 500m. Afterall, we mainstream ergers do intervals from 30" on up. I just think when <= 500m is the main focus, then the subject of erging starts going the way of powerlifting, not erging. In fact, that is the info that is posted. How many squats, etc. In a way, erg training has in a sense been highjacked by those who are can dominate the short distances with no real interest in mainstream erging.

Actually there have been references posted about interval training in these forums - some of them very detailed. 400m - 800m was only a suggestion for runners trying to maximize 10K. Let's say 80" to 3 mins.

No need to demonize me just because I'm expressing a contrary view, Lee.

[G-dub]

It has been said many times before by others, but it's a shame that people have to justify their presence and on this forum, especially when it is enthusiastic. Let's face it, it takes a pretty odd duck to post things day after day and there are probably not many of us that would to begin with. Seems like we would benefit from making it more open for more people. Yes, I'm a middle child that wants peace and harmony.

[left coaster]

That's starting to get to my original question, I like the 'idea' of interval training in the 400-1000m range tapping both VO2 max and anaerobic. Does anyone have a reference or other scientific evidence to support this idea? Thinking I'll set some time aside to do a lit search on this.

Scientific/reference to support what idea exactly? That interval training in the 400-1000m range is... what? You left the question a little bit open ended so it's hard to give you an answer. What exactly are you looking for?

Hi Armando, I'm looking for specific evidence that interval training in the 4-1000m range is an effective strategy for building VO2 max. I realize there are individual differences in VO2 max response to exercise and that some unfortunate souls don't seem to respond at all. Personally, my genetics testing places me as having a moderate/high VO2 max response to training. This variable aside, does 4-1000m distance intervals work?

I must disclose that at 45 the recent erg work I have been doing has definitely increased my overall muscle mass. It's been an interesting experiment because aside from regular power walks, hikes and some lite running (oh, and rippin' on the djembe) it is all I have been doing for several months. My legs, shoulders, back and arms are all moderately hypertrophic right now. Wifie thinks it's great lol. I got bigger, not thiner lol well, thinner around the waist -- broader everywhere else.

[hjs]

Yes, lots of interesting stuff being discussed!

Jim, regarding relevance of certain distances- just looking at last years stuff 5,000+ people bothered to rank a 500m time, contrast that with only 2,000 ranking the half marathon- the 2k garnered 13k entries

As none of us make a living erging, most of us are doing it for health benefits, competitive outlet or just because they enjoy it. I guess we could say we need a separate area to post for short distances, a 2k specific thread and a long distance thread but I don't think most of us care- I'm just as happy to see someone PB a 100m as I am to see someone hit a 100,000 m PB- it's all impressive and great to see!

We all have different biases regarding what we feel make the most sense from a training and competition perspective- while Henry thinks I sprint too much- I have managed to put up the best or among the best times in the world for my age from every distance (despite nearly aging out of the class and performing at 5000ft altitude) from 100m-1k - I guess I could argue the proof is in the pudding- results matter.

Vo2 Max is only 1 facet of health and is arguably trained a number of different ways- preserving strength and muscle mass is also associated with longevity and improved quality of life as we age- personally I find it very hard to maintain it unless I train it fairly intensely- a few Pushups here and there just doesn't cut it for me.

The diet stuff is a very long discussion that probably doesn't need to take place here.

As far as the "bigorexia" reference - I'm just going to say I am vehemently opposed to steroid usage and also largely disagree with the whole low testosterone supplementation/ andropause stuff. Far, far better to eat a healthy diet and train intensely, manage stress and get enough sleep!

Lee, sounds like you must be a cardiac perfusionist- you probably have worked with my ex when she was still doing cardiac anesthesia.

About erging being about the 2k, yes but, for most toprowers, the erg is just a trainingtool. The top countries over here dont even bother to rank/post results. We here in Holland don,t even have nat. records.
The Australians post there results often, with a strong bias on the long work, which is simply by far the most important training tool for 2k work.
The 500 has gotten a bit more attention due to the crossfit rage. But crossfitters are relative small/light, so no real freaks who take it up seriously.

Shawn, your results are fine, I don,t know if you could do better, but every sport in the 45/1.15 range gets the best results with a non dying finish. Now thats certainly also a genetic componant, but still, every time I see a fly and die, I think is suboptimal.

Re Tabata,s, the Japanse horribly miss the boot, they used to be pretty good, but their traditions really hinders them, they complete missed the boot on the ongoing training development. I talk about speed skating. The whole Tabata bullshit is utter nonsens. No serious athlete ever used those.

Re, Lee, it would be strange if every would agree with you, certainly not Jim, who knows one way only, his way So I think its a pitty you stop posting. Why not start a sprint thread? That would certainly in time attract attention.

[Cyclingman1]

Re, Lee, it would be strange if every would agree with you, certainly not Jim, who knows one way only, his way

Henry, Henry, you can't get to me. Hey look, you could make that statement about lots of folks. How about Mike C? Does he deviate from WP and negative splitting? NO. Greg Smith has his ideas. I actually think there is a certain amount of "correctness" that permeates this thread to the detriment of results. There are quite a few who are stuck, just treading water. Everyone is on LSD and low rates. There's another way.

[RBFC]

Jim,

As an "oddity and mostly irrelevant", it must be obvious to most what I intended in my efforts to make this forum more tolerant and friendly. I have deep respect for your accomplishments on the erg. Your lack of respect and outright insulting tone to those whose accomplishments lie elsewhere is exactly what this forum doesn't need, unless you want to converse only with the handful of guys already here. Most Crossfitters could not beat you at 2000m erging, but there is no denial that many of these guys are legitimate badass athletes who would crush you at 500m and almost every other non-erg athletic activity. Crossfit, love them or hate them, has done more to introduce people to C2 erging than all the Crash-B talk ever has. The lack of inclusion in your respect "bubble" is the issue, not your having a contrary opinion. I offer these comments in hope that you, as one of the regulars here, will adapt your philosophy to refrain from negative comments about other philosophies. As it stands, I would love to watch you race, but probably would not want to stick around and talk later, considering how you've spoken to others here.

Regards,

Lee

[mwalsh]

Mwalsh, implement your wife's grandson's advice to restrict stroke rate sub-25 spm in training pieces. Out of the mouths of babes! If he's kind enough to advise you on technique, listen don't contend. If he has the commo skills to reveal the source of the 6:11 chops, you may get to 8:00/2k. Has he dropped a casual hint that an unvaried series of 2k tests is not effective prep for a 2k TT? If so, don't even ask. Great coaching resources in your family! Don't resist exploiting them to your advantage. Ok, you can check the consensus here occasionally.

Thanks to PaulH and jackarabbit for the feedback. Yes, the GS is a good source of advice and coaching, and I have already asked him if he'll take a look at my form. He's a great kid and an absolute beast on both the erg and in his school's boat!

[hjs]

Re, Lee, it would be strange if every would agree with you, certainly not Jim, who knows one way only, his way

Henry, Henry, you can't get to me. Hey look, you could make that statement about lots of folks. How about Mike C? Does he deviate from WP and negative splitting? NO. Greg Smith has his ideas. I actually think there is a certain amount of "correctness" that permeates this thread to the detriment of results. There are quite a few who are stuck, just treading water. Everyone is on LSD and low rates. There's another way.

Thats what I mean, there is no other way. . Racing is not the best training. The fact that someone is pretty good does not mean his training is the best. You are a sample of one, no doubt you could have been a fast rower in your time, but your training ideas are outdated. If you did some research about current training in all major endurance events you would find out that the reason times have improved due to getting away from the style you use.

LSD, you really have no idea what low rate work really is, you call it weightlifting. An example of a session from the aussie duo. 60 min ut2, hf max 140, with a max above 180. 144 pace rate 21. Making them almost unbeatable. 2k time in the low 5.40 ies. 5k around 15 min. Etc.

Re Wp plan, not fully good, whole year round speedwork and the l4 paces are faulthy. Btw, I have never seen someone really do the plan. Mike himself did very well on the plan.


Re Greg, In my view not enough view on the overall look. Bodycomposition, strenght.