Pete Plan Autumn 2015

[Sideshow Bob]

Wow, Mike, good job overcoming your knee issues! Not sure I'd have the heart to basically start over after something like that.

Oh just to keep things moving along in the thread - in lieu of the regularly scheduled HD session, I did an R20 10k last night at a 2:09 pace. Seemed a reasonable workout - UT2 or UT1ish - but I should probably wear my HR monitor more often. I really like the low rate stuff...allows me to work on power without losing my breath.

[bisqeet]

Wow, Mike, good job overcoming your knee issues! Not sure I'd have the heart to basically start over after something like that.

Oh just to keep things moving along in the thread - in lieu of the regularly scheduled HD session, I did an R20 10k last night at a 2:09 pace. Seemed a reasonable workout - UT2 or UT1ish - but I should probably wear my HR monitor more often. I really like the low rate stuff...allows me to work on power without losing my breath.

thats about 90% of my current training. R18, R20 stuff in UT1/UT2. work on the power

[mdpfirrman]

Nice work Bob! Glad to have someone else working a modified PP.

Did the 4 X 2000 today. According to the plan, you should target 5K PB + .5 seconds, which would be 1:58.6. I wanted still to do a tougher workout (my race is still 11 days away) but I wanted to also take it a bit lighter so I targeted 1:59.0, which I nailed.

1:59.3 / 26 / 165
1:58.7 / 26 / 173
1:58.8 / 26 / 176
1:59.2 / 27 / 176

1:59.0 Avg / 26

My low SPM rate gives me some hope that I can eventually get much faster. It's hard for me to imagine Dean that you work like this for a half marathon with a lower SPM rate.

[Alissa]

Bob, if I had called the thread "something like the Pete Plan for guys over 50" it might have allowed us all to fit into it as we can without guilt! I certainly crashed and burned on it. In hindsight, I think that how you approach making adjustmemts depends on where you are and what you are trying to do. Right now, for many, speedier sessions are the focus because folks are pariticpating in races to test their 2K mettle. Other times of year, focusing more of the endurance intervals may make sense. But as Chris says, for most of us a weekly foundation of UT2 sesssion really helps and mixing threshold and speed and hard distance in the same week - actually even two of those - is really hard to sustain for us average joes.

Lol...a PP for average joes would be great, although, tbf, your times are FAR from average! I guess you guys have convinced me to suck it up and stick with a (heavily modified) PP for a bit longer. Secretly, I think I was hoping you'd tell me to take it easy!!

Interestingly enough, Pete Marston developed the PP as sort of a Wolverine Plan-Lite for people who didn't have the time for the full WP.

What goes around comes around again, I guess.

Alissa

[mdpfirrman]

Very nice, well paced gives you a good idea. Point to work on in the future is the rating, but for now don,t worry about it.

I've been thinking about what you said Henry. I know I'm not going to improve any time soon, but I was playing around with numbers today. If I increased my rate from 28 / 29 on my last 2K time trial (7:26.1) to 33 (assuming the same power), my time would be roughly a 6:32. I'm assuming that holding a much higher stroke rate comes with time a lots and lots of steady state work. Just an observation.

Alissa - I don't think it's the volume of the Wolverine that most of us can't do (I'm speaking for the near and over 50 crowd), it's the speed work, particularly the intermediate interval work along with the steady state work. Wolverine (and I think PP) were built for 20 somethings. I know there are many that do it in their 40s and 50s but I would imagine they aren't "average Joe's" like me, they were probably world class athletes at one time. Thanks to your comment, though, I did go back and re-read the Wolverine plan. I finally understand it much better after rowing for nearly a year. It's much more complex than PP. For me, I prefer simplicity.

[Sideshow Bob]

Good job on the 4x2k, Mike. That and the 4x1k are my least favorite sessions. As far as SPM goes, I've found that ~30/31 is my sweet spot for race pace. Anything higher and I tend to get winded faster and/or lose my form. But I see that the pros often go with 35+ so I suppose I should keep experimenting.

thats about 90% of my current training. R18, R20 stuff in UT1/UT2. work on the power

Thanks for the input, Dean. I'll never come close to your level of fitness, but I will keep plugging away.

Interestingly enough, Pete Marston developed the PP as sort of a Wolverine Plan-Lite for people who didn't have the time for the full WP.

What goes around comes around again, I guess.

Alissa

That is frightening (and a bit depressing!) to hear.

[hjs]

Very nice, well paced gives you a good idea. Point to work on in the future is the rating, but for now don,t worry about it.

I've been thinking about what you said Henry. I know I'm not going to improve any time soon, but I was playing around with numbers today. If I increased my rate from 28 / 29 on my last 2K time trial (7:26.1) to 33 (assuming the same power), my time would be roughly a 6:32. I'm assuming that holding a much higher stroke rate comes with time a lots and lots of steady state work. Just an observation.

Alissa - I don't think it's the volume of the Wolverine that most of us can't do (I'm speaking for the near and over 50 crowd), it's the speed work, particularly the intermediate interval work along with the steady state work. Wolverine (and I think PP) were built for 20 somethings. I know there are many that do it in their 40s and 50s but I would imagine they aren't "average Joe's" like me, they were probably world class athletes at one time. Thanks to your comment, though, I did go back and re-read the Wolverine plan. I finally understand it much better after rowing for nearly a year. It's much more complex than PP. For me, I prefer simplicity.

Most fast ergers indeed rate higher. Its often not so much more power per stroke, but more strokes. The fast sub 5.50 guys not seldom rate 35 or more on a 2k and are all at te same time. Superior fitness is needed.

Wolverine takes a lot of discipline. It can be done on all levels. Looking at current ideas about training, there is to much speed. And the l4 work is properly to fast, not aerobic enough. The volume is a good thing.

PP is just for race preparation, not doable in the longer run. You will run into a wall.

[mdpfirrman]

Thanks Henry for the advice. I really appreciate it. I was thinking about continuing on with PP indefinitely (or until I hit a wall) but with your and Chris' advice, I might rethink that after the race next week. Perhaps just one or two days of less intense interval work (perhaps just seeing how I feel). I was thinking about incorporating some power 10s into my longer work and perhaps doing shorter intervals (like 100 or 250) to try to build power.

I'm also going to reincorporate more strength work (just light kettlebells to start). I do realize, though, that the key to training now is the longer steady state rows. I'm going to start erging on the weekends too to get a longer row in (I do a true PP Lunch hour now - not enough time to get the longer rows in at lunch). That should help me get more meters in as well.

Did 8K yesterday (down from 9K normally). Probably went too fast but didn't go over 22 SPM at anytime. I do find I have a hard time going slower than that without pausing at the finish. I can probably do 21 but beyond that it starts to feel like you're not going smoothly any longer and that you're holding for the sake of holding. HR was mostly UT2 (under 150 for most of the row except the last 1000m).

I'll probably relook at Dean's thread on a low stroke rate training plan.

[Sideshow Bob]

I do find I have a hard time going slower than that without pausing at the finish. I can probably do 21 but beyond that it starts to feel like you're not going smoothly any longer and that you're holding for the sake of holding.

I felt that way at first, too, but I got used to it after a few sessions. The dreaded 4x1k tonight. Been putting it off for several days b/c it is just awful.

[hjs]

Thanks Henry for the advice. I really appreciate it. I was thinking about continuing on with PP indefinitely (or until I hit a wall) but with your and Chris' advice, I might rethink that after the race next week. Perhaps just one or two days of less intense interval work (perhaps just seeing how I feel). I was thinking about incorporating some power 10s into my longer work and perhaps doing shorter intervals (like 100 or 250) to try to build power.

I'm also going to reincorporate more strength work (just light kettlebells to start). I do realize, though, that the key to training now is the longer steady state rows. I'm going to start erging on the weekends too to get a longer row in (I do a true PP Lunch hour now - not enough time to get the longer rows in at lunch). That should help me get more meters in as well.

Did 8K yesterday (down from 9K normally). Probably went too fast but didn't go over 22 SPM at anytime. I do find I have a hard time going slower than that without pausing at the finish. I can probably do 21 but beyond that it starts to feel like you're not going smoothly any longer and that you're holding for the sake of holding. HR was mostly UT2 (under 150 for most of the row except the last 1000m).

I'll probably relook at Dean's thread on a low stroke rate training plan.

For general health certainly do some varied strenghtwork. Really important to keep the fast fibers in action, but they dont need high volume. Don,t mix aerobic work and speed together. You can do some speedwork after aerobic stuff. No need to go overboard intensity wise. Keep it at 90% intensity and short.

[mdpfirrman]

Thanks Henry. Hope you got through the 4 X 1000 Bob.

Did a 1500 W/U today and then 5K (sticking to PP just shorter than I've been doing on Fridays -- been doing 10K on my timed workout). Around a 2:03 average today. Didn't push overly hard and way off my PB but I mixed in a few power 10s and mixed up the rates a bit to keep it faster and fun. Will take my normal weekend off (rowing at least) and minimal cardio this weekend. One more week of training then my race.

[G-dub]

I am going to reward myself by posting this one in here:

4 x 1K:
Goal: finish all 4 and do it at last 2K plus 1 (1:46.8) - i needed to know if I can PB on race on 20th.
Actual: 1:46.3 and Ive never actually finished all four before!

1 - 1:47.1
2 - 1:46.4
3 - 1:46.3
4 - 1:45.6

I'm really stoked. This session has had my number for a long time. I am starting to feel pretty good 2 weeks out from event.

[G-dub]

I'm pasting this one everywhere. A milestone for me.

4 x 1K:
Goal: finish all 4 and do it at last 2K plus 1 (1:46.8) - i needed to know if I can PB on race on 20th.
Actual: 1:46.3 and I've never actually finished all four before !

1 - 1:47.1 - r31
2 - 1:46.4 - r32
3 - 1:46.3 - r32
4 - 1:45.6 - r34

Average - 1:46.3 - r32

[Bob S.]

I'm pasting this one everywhere.

Like twice on the same thread???

[G-dub]

Dang it! Oh well, I must be delirious.

And since you replyed Bob, I cant delete it!