Having A Hard Time Slowing Down

[[old] jaemesg]

Up until now I have just rowed to fill out my work outs in general but recently I started reading this site and have decided to get a little more serious about it.<br /><br />I took a work out off the site and tryed it out but I don't seem to be able to get my spm down to where they say it should be. <br /><br />I have always rowed w/ the damper @ 10 because that is where it was at when I started.<br /><br />Last nights work out was 5000 in 22 min and I couldn't keep the s/m reading on the display much below 28, what am I doing wrong?<br /><br />Am I wrong thinking the display that says s/m is = spm?<br /><br />If I have always rowwed at 10 should I lower it?<br /><br />what is a solid watt out put?<br /><br />what should I shoot for?

[[old] John Rupp]

Your stroke rate depends mostly on your height, and your weight<br /><br />Long time lightweight world record holder Eskild Ebbesen, and current lightweight record holder Elia Luini both row and compete at 8 meters per stroke.<br /><br />Here is a breakdown of the paces at 8 meters per stroke.<br /><br />spm<br />40: 1:33.8<br />38: 1:38.7<br />36: 1:44.2<br />34: 1:50.3<br />32: 1:57.2<br />30: 2:05.0<br />28: 2:14.0<br />26: 2:24.2<br /><br />So for a lightweight, under 6' tall and 165 pounds, your 28 spm for a 2:12 pace sounds just about right.

[[old] Phillip Smith]

John<br /><br />These figures are very interesting: do you know where I can get similar figures for other heigths/weight (specifically 6'2" 98kg).<br /><br />Phil

[[old] maf]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 25 2005, 03:01 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 25 2005, 03:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your stroke rate depends mostly on your height, and your weight<br /><br />Long time lightweight world record holder Eskild Ebbesen, and current lightweight record holder Elia Luini both row and compete at 8 meters per stroke.<br /><br />Here is a breakdown of the paces at 8 meters per stroke.<br /><br />spm<br />40:  1:33.8<br />38:  1:38.7<br />36:  1:44.2<br />34:  1:50.3<br />32:  1:57.2<br />30:  2:05.0<br />28:  2:14.0<br />26:  2:24.2<br /><br />So for a lightweight, under 6' tall and 165 pounds, your 28 spm for a 2:12 pace sounds just about right. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hmm.<br /><br />I'm lightweight, and I row 2:00 - 2:08 at around 22 spm.<br /><br />What am I doing wrong? <br /><br />Michael<br />

[[old] Dickie]

<!--QuoteBegin-maf+Apr 25 2005, 07:07 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(maf @ Apr 25 2005, 07:07 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 25 2005, 03:01 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 25 2005, 03:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your stroke rate depends mostly on your height, and your weight<br /><br />Long time lightweight world record holder Eskild Ebbesen, and current lightweight record holder Elia Luini both row and compete at 8 meters per stroke.<br /><br />Here is a breakdown of the paces at 8 meters per stroke.<br /><br />spm<br />40:  1:33.8<br />38:  1:38.7<br />36:  1:44.2<br />34:  1:50.3<br />32:  1:57.2<br />30:  2:05.0<br />28:  2:14.0<br />26:  2:24.2<br /><br />So for a lightweight, under 6' tall and 165 pounds, your 28 spm for a 2:12 pace sounds just about right. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hmm.<br /><br />I'm lightweight, and I row 2:00 - 2:08 at around 22 spm.<br /><br />What am I doing wrong? <br /><br />Michael <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Basically all you are doing wrong is listening to John Rupp. <br /><br />I have to get back into my profile and ignore his posts again.

[[old] jaemesg]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Apr 24 2005, 09:31 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Apr 24 2005, 09:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your stroke rate depends mostly on your height, and your weight....<br /><br />So for a lightweight, under 6' tall and 165 pounds, your 28 spm for a 2:12 pace sounds just about right.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />But I am not a light weight, I am 6 foot & currently at about 212 pounds.<br /><br />The work out I was trying to do was 5000m in 30mins:<br /><br />1K @ 22 spm<br /><br />1K @ 25 spm<br /><br />1K@ 27 spm and so on.. <br /><br />I take this to mean I should be trying to attain 22 s/m on the display for the first on thousand meters, am I interpetting this correctly?<br /><br />The reading on the Display reads "30 s/m" or above when I row, I have to really concentrate on trying to slow down.<br /><br />I have found that I can slow down and increase the amount of effort I put in to each drive in order to keep my heart rate up. Is this what I should be doing?<br /><br />Should I be worried about my damper setting?

[[old] Canoeist]

James, you are right that s/m and spm are for strokes per minute. You should be trying to row at 22 strokes per minute and it can be done with practice. The lower strokes per minute is a bit like weight lifting - you put more effort into each stroke in order to develop strength. The theory is that when you go to race, you keep the same power per stroke, but up the rate and the boat will fly. <br /><br />Most of the top rowers use a much lower damper setting than #10. Most use #3 or #4. You will need some time to develop the quickness in the muscles. But, in the long run, it would probably be best to start training with a lower damper setting. Maybe don't lower it all at once. Try lowering by a notch each week.<br /><br />Fred Dickie's comments make me laugh, but he always speaks words of wisdom.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] John Rupp]

Philip,<br /><br />Thanks. Lightweights Eskild Ebbesen and Elia Luini are 6'0 to 6'1. The tallest and heaviest rowers go at around 9.7 meters per stroke, for example Paavo Shurmei when he did 5:39.7 Here are the figures for 9 meters per stroke. <br /><br />spm<br />40: 1:23.3<br />38: 1:27.1<br />36: 1:32.6<br />34: 1:38.0<br />32: 1:44.2<br />30: 1:51.1<br />28: 1:59.0<br />26: 2:08.2<br /><br />Rowing at 8 meters per stroke for lightweights, 9 mps for mid hwt's, and 9.7 mps for hwt's, gives a greater emphasis to the drive portion of the stroke.

[[old] PaulS]

Phil,<br /><br />Just for clarity's sake. Don't fall into the notion that lower meters per stroke has anything to do with height or weight. I coach a wide range of athletes and from the 5'4" 110lb woman to the 6'5" 235lb guy will both cover 10 meters per stroke while I'm training them, and all seem to get relatively good results with that training. (Oh, and they don't use straps either.) <br /><br />"Strapless, 10 Meters per Stroke." (S10PS)<br /><br />You can find plently of people to argue against it, but that's what makes it fun. <br /><br />Try out some lower Drag Factors also, 105-110 is a nice range to learn how to be quick at the catch.<br /><br />Cheers!

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-jaemesg+Apr 25 2005, 04:32 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(jaemesg @ Apr 25 2005, 04:32 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The reading on the Display reads "30 s/m" or above when I row, I have to really concentrate on trying to slow down.<br /><br />I have found that I can slow down and increase the amount of effort I put in to each drive in order to keep my heart rate up. Is this what I should be doing?<br /><br />Should I be worried about my damper setting? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why would you want to slow down?<br /><br />An average drag factor is 110-120 for lightweights and 120-130 for heavyweights.

[[old] Cran]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->An average </td></tr></table><br />An average post from John Rupp is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.<br /><br />...But he does know everything about how Eskild Ebbesen and Elia Luini do all of their training...

[[old] jamesg]

My answers to your questions would be:<br /><br />Last nights work out was 5000 in 22 min and I couldn't keep the s/m reading on the display much below 28, what am I doing wrong?<br />- Sounds as if your stroke is very short - keep it long smooth and with a slow relaxed recovery. In watery terms, pull long and then let the boat run, no point in sticking your oar in again if she's still going fast. The erg penalises short strokes - the catch is sloppy enough on it's own, so if you also row short, your stroke will only be about 2 feet long, from where the chain tightens. Not enough to get any work done. Get as near the chain guard as possible, tho' without reaching a weak position. Rowing for training does NOT mean pulling hard or fast - it means pull long.<br /><br />Am I wrong thinking the display that says s/m is = spm?<br />- No<br /><br />If I have always rowed at 10 should I lower it?<br />- Can do, anywhere between 100 and 150 is acceptable (Drag Factor). Most of us like 130 = 3-4; a 1x feels like 150 = 5.<br /><br />what is a solid watt out put?<br />- UT2 is up to 2.2 W/kg<br />UT1 up to 2.8<br />AT up to 3.2 W/kg.<br />If you're overweight and/or unfit, use a conventional weight = your height in metres squared x a BMI of say 23; this is kinder on yourself. If you're 6', use 80 kg.<br /><br />Don't worry about the arcane language (UT etc), you only have to do the lower levels to get fit anyway. AT is strictly for masochists and racing.<br /><br />what should I shoot for? <br />Long Life, Technique, Fitness. You get them all by taking it easy and paddling > ½h a day.<br /><br />More info in the Interactive, the Wolverine (L4 type work) and the Gold Standard method described by Mel Harbour in this forum.

[[old] John Rupp]

I agree with JamesG, in the sense that the boat or erg only picks up and/or maintains speed with the drive, hence most of the emphasis for time of the stroke should be drive time.<br /><br />Top rowers Eskild Ebbesen and Elia Luini, as well as hwt's like Paavo Shurmei and Graham Benton, have 46-48% or more of their stroke time on drive, i.e. their drive is long and smooth, and they don't waste a lot of excess time with recovery.<br /><br />That's not to say extending the drive beyond it's highest effectiveness.<br /><br />Here's a video of long time world record holder Eskild Ebbesen, that should help to answer many questions.<br /><br /><a href='http://look-at-it.com/ee-worldrecord.asp' target='_blank'>http://look-at-it.com/ee-worldrecord.asp</a><br /><br /><br />