Hr Ut2 And Marathon

[[old] Bill]

Hello,<br /><br />When I do slow easy sessions my pulse still rises quite a bit from start to finish<br /><br />ie 10 beats in 45 minutes. 130 bpm to 140bpm<br /><br />If I extrapolate this for a marathon if I did 2:10 for 3 and bit hours I would end up close to my MHR.<br /><br />I think this is cardiac drift ?<br /><br />So if I get everything just right for my marathon attempt do I get over the line with my pulse just sitting on MHR after having slowly climbed there over the last 3 and a bit hours ?<br /><br /><br />Bill<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] jamesg]

HR drift is usually said to be due to dehydration; the blood gets thicker so needs more pumping to get it to circulate. If this theory is true the drift should be controllable by drinking. <br /><br />To this presumably we should add the possible HR effect of the increase in body temperature due to exercise. With a fever, HR increases and I doubt whether body temperature control and other systems can distinguish between the effects of a bug and of an erg.<br /><br />The only tme I did an M, I slowed down so much in the last hour and drank so much that my HR did stay constant. But I'm not doing it again just to see if it'll work twice. The least of my problems was HR.<br /><br />Some people here seem to do an M every day before breakfast, so will know plenty more.

[[old] tomhz]

Hi Bill,<br /><br />I think Jamesg is right about dehydration and rise of body temperature during a marathon. If you drink enough before and during the marathon the cardiac drift will be acceptable and you HR won't rise to your MHR. If you like, I can send you the HR graph of my last FM attempt. If I remember correctly, I went past 145 not until the last 5k. <br />HR was indeed the least of my problems.<br /><br />I think a 2:10 FM pace is quite ambitious compared to your HM PB. I did my first HM@2:18 and my 2nd a year ago @2:13. For April this year I aim for 2:10.<br /><br />Tom<br /><br />

[[old] Bayko]

It depends both on how close you are to your best fitness, and what intensity you will be attempting. The fitter you are, the less will be the drift assuming that you are working within your aerobic capacity.<br /><br />My most recent marathon was on January 2nd. The goal was to stay within what I've figured my UT2 zone to be, which is a HR of 134. Keeping a steady pace for the entire distance my HR gradually rose throughout the first 12km to reach 122. From 12km to 30km it stayed within a beat or two of that 122. Then from 30km to the end it gradually drifted up to 130. I drank approx. 3.5oz of a sports drink every 3km. I considered myself to be in pretty good shape at the time. A few months earlier I had done one at a slower pace with more drift, and had to slow a bit at the end to keep within my target HR zone. I wasn't quite as fit at that time.<br /><br />Rick

[[old] peterb]

<!--QuoteBegin-tomhz+Feb 4 2005, 06:45 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(tomhz @ Feb 4 2005, 06:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think Jamesg is right about dehydration and rise of body temperature during a marathon. <br /><br />Tom <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hey Bill & Tom,<br /><br />Hydration during a long effort is critical. Contestants at the Hawaii Ironman who do not adequately hydrate during the race have had problems with elevated heart rates and increased body core temperature. The most famous was Julie Moss. In addition to the problems noted above, her body started to shut down and she ended up losing control of certain body functions. Not a pretty sight!!! <br /><br />Peter<br /><br />PS - The name escapes me, but there was a women's marathon runner who had similar problems in one of the most recent Olympics.<br /><br />PSS - I am not slamming women, these are just the two incidents that come to mind. My cousin (male) had a similar experience competing in an Ironman and ended up with an immune deficiency syndrome which he was finally able to come out of last year. Hydration is not something to be taken lightly!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />

[[old] Canoeist]

Dehydration and heat build up certainly add to cardiac drift, but it isn't all of it. I onece tried to eliminate cardiac drift by rowing in shorts and socks in below freezing temperature and after drinking more than enough fluids. But cardiac drift still happened. I am still looking for ways to keep my heart rate from climbing with a constant power output during long rows.<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] Bayko]

<!--QuoteBegin-peterb+Feb 4 2005, 07:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(peterb @ Feb 4 2005, 07:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />PS - The name escapes me, but there was a women's marathon runner who had similar problems  in one of the most recent Olympics.<br /><br />PSS - I am not slamming women, these are just the two incidents that come to mind. My cousin (male) had a similar experience competing in an Ironman and ended up with an immune deficiency  syndrome which he was finally able to come out of last year. Hydration is not something to be taken lightly!!!!!!!!!!!!! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Peter, you're probably thinking of Gabriele Anderson in the Los Angeles Olympics. And you're right that it is not limited to women. At least two male Olympians led the marathon race into the stadium and collapsed on the track. Dorando Pietri collapsed several times before being literally carried across the line by officials (and later disqualified because of it), and Etienne Gailly (sp?) collapsed and was eventually passed by two others before finishing.<br /><br />Even amongst the fittest athletes dehydration is dangerous.<br /><br />Rick<br />

[[old] Bayko]

P.S. to the above.<br /><br />The Dorando incident happened in the 1908 Olympics in London. The race was originally scheduled to be 25 miles, a round figure that approximated the legendary run of Pheidippides from the plain of Marathon to Athens in 490BC. I believe that the story was that the Olympics committe wanted the Queen to be the race starter, and tat some rule prevented either her, or her children (who she wanted to witness it) from leaving Windsor Castle to go to the start. So the race officials brought the start to her. It backed up the starting line by 1 mile and 385 yards. Bad for Dorando, beacause he didn't collapse until after 26 miles. He would have won a 25 mile race quite easily. Also odd, in that the official marathon distance since then has been left at 26 miles, 285 yards. If not for the Queen, our erg marathons could be a nice round 40km, making for nice even-numbered splits. Think of that when you have 2195m left in your next marathon. It is O.K. to curse the Queen in your mind. <br /><br />Rick