Beginner looking for some guidance please.

[jackarabit]

Following on Glenn's comment, I agree that strapless rowing teaches us to get hands away and rock forward at finish without a tug on the footstraps. I had no trouble doing it at SR26. I still do it occasionally for sentimental reasons (like visiting your old school on class reunion day) but is it necessary to continue doing it? Does it strengthen abdominal muscle? Or is it the case that it merely limits the velocity of the arms finish in the interest of killing (absorbing) momentum? I always have the sense that I'm deliberately pulling the sternum to the hands rather than the hands to the sternum. Not trying to be querulous here. I do wonder if strapless is a "balance and movement assessment" tool for neophyte rowers and ergers which fades in importance as it accomplishes its purpose?

[hjs]

Following on Glenn's comment, I agree that strapless rowing teaches us to get hands away and rock forward at finish without a tug on the footstraps. I had no trouble doing it at SR26. I still do it occasionally for sentimental reasons (like visiting your old school on class reunion day) but is it necessary to continue doing it? Does it strengthen abdominal muscle? Or is it the case that it merely limits the velocity of the arms finish in the interest of killing (absorbing) momentum? I always have the sense that I'm deliberately pulling the sternum to the hands rather than the hands to the sternum. Not trying to be querulous here. I do wonder if strapless is a "balance and movement assessment" tool for neophyte rowers and ergers which fades in importance as it accomplishes its purpose?

85% plus of my meters are strapless, at lower ratings the movement is 99% like strapped in. If you can,t erg long enough, you could be not being connected enough to the feetrest enough.
I also do it for faster stuff, but to be honoust that is useless, speedy work, strap in.

[G-dub]

I have evolved into a light loose strap for everything but the hard stuff - not sure why. Maybe there is something about sliding the feet in that signals "time to get to work". But I agree that it's not needed for the 80% we do that is UT.

[Bob S.]

On my machine at home, I never use the straps. I have them permanently tucked out of the way. I have used stroke rates from 10 to >60 spm with no problem. Of course, it is a dynamic, which is far more forgiving than a grounded standard model. When I was still using a model D at home, I had it on slides and rarely used the straps. On the grounded Ds that I have used at Crossfit and at C2 race venues, I usually intend to use the straps, since I want to avoid comments from other ergers. But I often forgot and there was no problem, even doing Fletcher warmups with rates up to 40spm. It all seems to be a matter of getting used to it.

The arm pull should not interfere with the backswing. The final movement of the arms involves getting your elbows well to the back and that includes the shoulders rolling back some. I don't understand Jack's comment at all. The arms are not deliberately used to kill the momentum. The arms are used to finish off the drive and absorption of the backward momentum of the body is just a natural consequence of proper timing and sequencing. I don't think of pulling my hands to my sternum or vice versa, but of pulling that handle as far from the cage as I can without exaggerating my backswing or pulling my hands up too high on my chest.

[jackarabit]

Old thread from ought five: http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3068

The one clear conclusion I draw is that someone at some time has compelled us to row strapless without providing a compelling argument for doing so. Anyone willing to attest (or know someone who has) that he/she produces a better average pace strapless than strapped? Or that she/he can maintain a given pace more easily feet free? Let's say at rate 25 as leg flexion enters the picture at sprint rates above 29.

[Shawn Baker]

I'll just peak my head in here and clarify a few things- my background in strength training probably affords me a great deal of protection for my lower back- even when rowing with the DF up around 290 (fan cover off and damper 10)- I was working with Xeno Muller for quite a while and he was the one that advocated that I did that- I've experimented all over the place rowing as low as about DF 70 (remember I live at very high altitude) - one of Xeno's thoughts was that it is more difficult to do hard work at altitude and postulated that rowing at higher drag might compensate a bit for it- clearly based upon my own experimentation when I am doing sprints 300 m or less- the more drag the better- my most recent 500m PR (1:18.7) was done at DF 290- I think I did my 1k PR at around DF 180- the longer type stuff can vary- I did a 30 min 8k+ at DF 290 as well and I don't have any difficulty with it-but I've also done longer stuff in the 120-160 range- I think I did a rate 20 2k (6:52) at DF 140 ish- my stroke has always been a bit back dominant as years of deadlifting have produced maximum strength when my knee and back lockouts are very close together (Xeno and I fought about it quite a bit as he prefers a very sequential style- likely better suited for OTW stuff)- but again through lots of self experimentation I find that the more sequential stroke almost always causes me to have a slower split-no matter the rate,DF or distance- so perhaps I don't fit exactly in the typical rowing box and IMO whatever give us the best individual result long term(without injury) is likely the best individual technique, style, training method, DF.....

[Papy]

It helps to finish the stroke and to prevent going up to fast.
There should hardly be any pace difference between normal and unstrapped. The feeling about not leaning back is normal, you can be less easy with the feet not fixed. Only sprinting can not be done fast strapless.

ok, i might thrown in a bit of strapless rowing every now and then from now on, particularly in the warm-up, if anything to diversify my rowing exercises but to keep my speed down.

More of a questioning observation instead of a statement:
I did mostly strapless for a long time at the beginning. I think it helped me to center and to link things together. But it might also have gotten me a little too stiff. In other words I was staying too upright - especially at the end of the push. This might have caused early arms. Anyway, strapless is valuable AND I also think practicing range of motion (hinging) and sequencing in the hips is important to remember. The hips get lost sometimes in the sequencing discussion but seem important to me in that they hinge going forward to keep the back on plane while you extend into the catch and open going backward to get length.

Have looked up the hinging exercise. Will give that a try.

Any suggestions please re the corrections to bring in to avoid the double peak in my Adam-style power curve ? Thank you.

Otherwise, Bit all over the shop today in the workout. My longest single rowing session so far at 48+ minutes, tried to get to the hour but caved in when I passed the 11k mark. Pushed too hard in the 10-20 minutes period and struggled to find my rhythm afterwards. The downward curl definitely helps overall but i still need to find the right balance in timing in my recovery. Caused some irregular spikes at 23/24 spm instead of my steady 21/22 for the long work. Splits suffered consequently as well. oh well, one day at a time

[Bob S.]

Old thread from ought five: http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3068

The one clear conclusion I draw is that someone at some time has compelled us to row strapless without providing a compelling argument for doing so. Anyone willing to attest (or know someone who has) that he/she produces a better average pace strapless than strapped? Or that she/he can maintain a given pace more easily feet free? Let's say at rate 25 as leg flexion enters the picture at sprint rates above 29.

Compelled?????? I have seen it recommended strongly for beginners to help them learn the technique of sequencing, and I have passed on that advice often myself. But I have never heard it claimed that it would do anything to improve the performance of an eager who has gotten past that point.

I made a big point about my own lack of use of straps. I also mentioned that I was embarrassed to be seen in public not using the straps, since the conventional wisdom is that they should be used, especially at high rates. I didn't admit to the basic reason for my failure to use them. To keep it plain and simple, it is just laziness. I regard them as a nuisance. With my low power/stroke and an erg with a rolling stretcher, I don't need them - so why bother with them?

[jackarabit]

Papy writes:

Any suggestions please re the corrections to bring in to avoid the double peak in my Adam-style power curve ? Thank you.

Force curve????????? It can be photographed from the row-in-progress screen of the pm3/4/5 and linked here via foto host site. You will have 2 minutes to get the shot before the power shutdown. A similar link to video of your stroke--did I suggest that earlier?--may make apparent the hitch in your gitalong if, indeed, there is one? Help us help you. Or not. The advice and shared experience here is free and subject to the perennial observation that, as a consequence, it may be worth nothing. If worth nothing, perhaps we should start charging for it? Jack

[Papy]

hmm...still need to sort out that video for guidance

Stupidly or not, I have registered for the 40-49 y.o. 2K at the BRIC 2015 in December. I was initially thinking of going to the one in December as a spectator to have a feel for it then participate next year...and then i thought, what the hell, taking part this year would be the best way to remain committed to improving my fitness, work harder on my calorie intake for the next 2 months and set me up nicely health wise for 2016...and more erging

My current PB puts me in the bottom 2 based on last Feb's BRIC. So improving my PB will be my only goal for Dec 12th... but you never know...on a misunderstanding and if Graham Benton has an off-day...

[gregsmith01748]

Good for you for signing up for BRIC. It sounds like you are already well positioned to avoid a "DFL" (Dead F-ing Last) . It will certainly give you some motivation to stick with it.

Regarding the force curve, the best thing to do is try to experiment with your stroke to see if you can purposefully change it. If you have a double hump, that probably means that you are opening your back early. "What the hell does that mean?", I can hear you say. That means that you are pushing with your legs and starting to lean back all at once when you start the stroke. If you try to keep leaning forward as you start the stroke with your legs, you will see that the initial slope of the force curve will be more gradual and the double hump will probably be reduced. Anyway, give it a try.

[Carl Watts]

Not a big fan of strapless myself, the closest I get is just not even bothering to do up my laces and I leave them really loose for the cool down but at 2:08.5 pace and only 17spm its not really a problem.

Really don't see how you can do fast ratings at really fast pace on a static Concept 2 rower when the only thing pulling your entire body weight back during the recovery is 7 or 8 pounds of shock cord.

Personally I like the feet grounded the same way as you would use straps or toe clips on a bike, you also know your not going anywhere if there's a problem either, I know someone who has gone off the back of the erg after a mechanical problem.

[gregsmith01748]

Not a big fan of strapless myself, the closest I get is just not even bothering to do up my laces and I leave them really loose for the cool down but at 2:08.5 pace and only 17spm its not really a problem.

Really don't see how you can do fast ratings at really fast pace on a static Concept 2 rower when the only thing pulling your entire body weight back during the recovery is 7 or 8 pounds of shock cord.

Personally I like the feet grounded the same way as you would use straps or toe clips on a bike, you also know your not going anywhere if there's a problem either, I know someone who has gone off the back of the erg after a mechanical problem.

One of the things that I figured out from doing a lot of strapless rowing is that it is not just the shock cord that is pulling you back, it's really the down pressure from your heels in the foot plate. This helps to reinforce getting your upper body forward at the catch and limits the amount of layback at the finish to keep your heels "connected" to the footplate. Rowing strapless really helped me make my recovery a lot smoother.

I agree that straps are a really good thing if you are doing anything hard or high rate. I generally do all my long and slow rowing without straps and all my intervals and hard time trials with straps on.

[lindsayh]

I know I shouldn't admit this and that strapless rowing is supposed to be good for me but I don't get it - I try sometimes but just can't do it at all - cant get under 2:00 pace.
Just have to keep trying I guess.

[hjs]

I know I shouldn't admit this and that strapless rowing is supposed to be good for me but I don't get it - I try sometimes but just can't do it at all - cant get under 2:00 pace.
Just have to keep trying I guess.

Indeed, you don,t have to like it, but if you can,t your stroke is not good. Most often the finish is weak.