Beginner looking for some guidance please.

[G-dub]

I've just noticed that my drag factor has been set at 100 for a while now, but I've been doing mostly distance work. I think you get used to it and lower drags allow for a quicker push and, for me I think, easier sequencing of the body parts - you don't have to haul the back as much. I think the last time I did sprint work, it was at 114. It's worth playing around with it.

[Papy]

Thank you for the further clarifications.

I will give a go to the unstrapped rowing this evening and also focus on the back leaning. I'll see how that fares and revert.

Re the curve info, I know that we can change the display to show it as you row but i don't recall a way to see it after the work out, at least not in the memory section, is there ? (We have PM4's at the gym).
I only used it once or twice on "live" display. I don't remember the ratings but in terms of shape I think it was closer to the Adam style, probably with the early rise slightly more pronounced. I'll run that again tonight and let you guys know.

Noted re the DF, hardy and G-Dub. I'll keep experimenting on that front too.

[jackarabit]

At a guess i'll say I think both strong sprinters AND newbies with slow leg drive use relatively high drag factors. When I started erging following cardiac rehab. I used 125-140. In a few months it settled at 120 and at the end of the first year at 115. Then 110 for the past six months until a hand injury in July forced me to look to df100 for a softened catch. The drop to 110 and now 100 has improved my leg speed and endurance and reduced the incidence of shoulder girdle soreness. Pace on pieces longer than 10k hasn't suffered. Jack

[hjs]

At a guess i'll say I think both strong sprinters AND newbies with slow leg drive use relatively high drag factors. When I started erging following cardiac rehab. I used 125-140. In a few months it settled at 120 and at the end of the first year at 115. Then 110 for the past six months until a hand injury in July forced me to look to df100 for a softened catch. The drop to 110 and now 100 has improved my leg speed and endurance and reduced the incidence of shoulder girdle soreness. Pace on pieces longer than 10k hasn't suffered. Jack

Some more stuff.

A high drag lets the fan spin less fast, this makes the drivetime of the stroke longer. For longer distance rowing this gives a slow, kind of sloppy stroke. Lowering the drag, keeps the fan spinning faster and makes the stroke more lively and precise.

For pure sprinting, 500 meter and shorter, a higher drag helps, the higher speed makes the fan spin so fast that the drivetime gets very short. Getting more drag helps here. But ofcourse, this is risky, pulling at close to max power puts lots of pressure on the back. Often, rowers who are not well trained for sprinting ramp the drag up all of a sudden when doing a sprint. Bad idea, asking for trouble.

My advice, for a heathly bsck, is to us a lower drag 110/20 for longer work. If you want to sprint, use some shorter, higher drag stuff to. If sprinting is not you think don,t bother with drag. Aerobic fitness is almost always the weak link, not power per stroke.

[G-dub]

I like what Morgan said once..."I like being the one creating the resistance (drag) - not the machine".

[jackarabit]

MG may have said that but I'll bet he puts the lever on 10. Jack

[G-dub]

Jack, I recall him in the 130's for 1K and 2K

[jackarabit]

Papy, apropos of the four major strokes styles illustrated in Bob's post, the Rosenberg, showing peak force mid-stroke, allegedly creates power when oars are perpendicular to boat and blades moving most nearly parallel to the boat's course. Rowers with late back/torso enlistment should produce this sharp peak of force. No oars on your erg I think? None on mine. Unless I er, I believe Bob recommends the "left-leaning haystack" for the erg-bound. My force curves approximate to the Adam and Grinko shapes and show maximum force early. If I really snap hands to chest smartly at finish, I get a small hollow and ramp in the second half. Dips in the curve (double peaks) are not desirable. Jack

[jackarabit]

Glenn, guess Morgan doesn't jack it up for everything. Wonder what he does at 500m? Jack

[G-dub]

He and Power Rower were trying to get Shawn Baker to lower his drag recently - who IS at max. I think they both are in the 150-160 range if that. Maybe they will poke their head in here. No need for us to go on about it.

[Bob S.]

He and Power Rower were trying to get Shawn Baker to lower his drag recently - who IS at max. I think they both are in the 150-160 range if that. Maybe they will poke their head in here. No need for us to go on about it.

When the caber tosser first posted on the forum, he spoke of an incredible DF of 235 or so. I asked about that and said something about having the erg in a hyperbaric chamber or removing part of the shield. As it turned out, he was actually in a low pressure environment (at relatively high altitude), but that, yes, he had removed part of the shield. For the kind of power those fellows have, I guess they can get away with it - especially when doing the really short stuff. Normally, I would be concerned about that high a DF being a back hazard, but I am sure the Shawn knows exactly what he can handle.

Bob S.

[jackarabit]

On the training today thread, Dr B says he's set on df 150 for strapless 3k.

[Papy]

Some feedback from tonight session :

- Did 2 x 1km unstrapped. gotta say that's peculiar ! No jolt off the seat to report, I still kept a normal flow, but not much power at all with splits at 2.35-2.40 instead of my steady 2.15) and no ability to lean back either (straight at the finish). is that normal ? On the plus side, that later point felt so unnatural that i must be doing the lean back unconsciously anyway in the normal stroke (if i specifically think about the lean back during the normal stroke, i do think i am going to far back). As a general side point, what are the benefits of rowing unstrapped ?

- introduced the downward curl at finish in the normal stroke as advised. Much better flow thank you, I just have to really focus to keep the speed of the recovery in check.

- After my usual steady 30 minutes (6.7k at 2.14m 21 spm), I threw in a 2K (8'10) to look at the power curve in more details. I definitely fall into the Adam style in the main, but on about half my strokes, I do get a peak-small trough-peak shape at the top end. I also noticed similar curves when I had it on display in the early part of the 30 min row. As per Jack, then, that's no wanted, So what aspects of the drive do I need to look at to correct this please ?

- the Ergo pad is a blessing. Absolutely comfortable. So much so, that i forgot all about it and left it on the Ergo when I walked out the gym !! Called the gym when i got home and it was still there ! something tells me that won't be the first time that will happen !

[hjs]

Some feedback from tonight session :

- Did 2 x 1km unstrapped. gotta say that's peculiar ! No jolt off the seat to report, I still kept a normal flow, but not much power at all with splits at 2.35-2.40 instead of my steady 2.15) and no ability to lean back either (straight at the finish). is that normal ? On the plus side, that later point felt so unnatural that i must be doing the lean back unconsciously anyway in the normal stroke (if i specifically think about the lean back during the normal stroke, i do think i am going to far back). As a general side point, what are the benefits of rowing :

It helps to finish the stroke and to prevent going up to fast.

There should hardly be any pace difference between normal and unstrapped. The feeling about not leaning back is normal, you can be less easy with the feet not fixed. Only sprinting can not be done fast strapless.

[G-dub]

More of a questioning observation instead of a statement:

I did mostly strapless for a long time at the beginning. I think it helped me to center and to link things together. But it might also have gotten me a little too stiff. In other words I was staying too upright - especially at the end of the push. This might have caused early arms. Anyway, strapless is valuable AND I also think practicing range of motion (hinging) and sequencing in the hips is important to remember. The hips get lost sometimes in the sequencing discussion but seem important to me in that they hinge going forward to keep the back on plane while you extend into the catch and open going backward to get length.