30r20 - fixed pace or fixed HR?

[Citroen]

All maths done by the PM3, PM4, PM5 is always rounded down. So 19.8 gets rounded to 19.

[Carl Watts]

All maths done by the PM3, PM4, PM5 is always rounded down. So 19.8 gets rounded to 19.

Not according to the stroke counter I built. Anyway regardless its still hopeless rounding that much anyway you need the results to at least 1/10ths or you cannot use the information when you try to analyse it, too big a variation in the results to directly compare one row to another. Do the math that's an extra 24 strokes you took at 19.8 compared to an actual 19.0, think about it that's over another minute of rowing you just compressed into your 30 minute ! the increased load at the lower rating has a big impact on your heartrate, rating up at the same pace in the 2:00/500m region or faster drops your average HR, if you don't believe me then try it.

Anyway anyone who wants more accurate info just build a counter, its just a shame that its so easy to implement in the monitor and it has not been done yet. Still I have made a couple of other suggestions for improvements to the way concept 2 does things, none of which get implemented. Cannot say the same for Digital Rowing, a few of my ideas have made it into the software.

[bonefixer]

Did another interesting 30R20 piece today. Set out with the intention of doing it heart rate restricted, to see what pace I'd average. Aimed for 75% HRR which, using round numbers, is 150. For the first 10 minutes I was doing fine, in fact so good that despite restricting the HR I was faster than the fixed 2.00 pace I did the other day. I then abandoned the HR limits and kept up the pace. Finished up at 1:58.3 (211W) average, and my average HR was only 154. Previous effort was 203W with an average HR of 157!

Certainly didn't feel suicidal, in fact I felt quite comfortable (although I was sweating buckets). Nowhere near one of Paul's killer pieces. Perhaps next time I'll go for 220W.

[Cyclingman1]

Something is missing from this topic and that is the subject of cardiovascular drift or the gradual increase of HR at the same workload/pace. As one exercises the body heats up and blood is redirected to extremities to get rid of heat. The blood volume in the heart diminishes so the heart must beat faster to compensate - or something like that. The goal of constant HR at the same pace is not really possible. The longer the piece, the more the increase in HR: 5,10,15, even 20 beats per min.

[Bob S.]

Another factor in the heart rate drift is increase of viscosity of the blood as a result of sweating. With higher viscosity, the blood will flow more slowly, especially in the capillaries. The more you sweat, the higher the HR will go.
Bob S.

[bonefixer]

Another factor in the heart rate drift is increase of viscosity of the blood as a result of sweating. With higher viscosity, the blood will flow more slowly, especially in the capillaries. The more you sweat, the higher the HR will go.
Bob S.

I don't think the blood viscosity will change much. The main factor in cardiac drift is the venodilatation and relative reduction in venous return, meaning the heart rate has to increase to maintain the same cardiac output.

[Cyclingman1]

Actually the root cause of cardiac drift is the heat generated by exercise and the inefficiency of the human body. Well under half of the calories expended go into propelling motion; well over half causes heat rise. They body has to get rid of the heat. I've spoken about this before in terms of the surface area of people. In any event, the increased blood flow to the extremities due to dilation of the surface vessels can only be accomplished if the heart beats faster. In extremely cool situations the body has to work less hard to dissipate the heat and the HR will not rise as much. I've seen data presented by some where there was little cardiac drift but they were rowing literally in sub-freezing conditions.

[Bob S.]

Well under half of the calories expended go into propelling motion; well over half causes heat rise.

Well under half, indeed. The monitor Calorie count is based on only a quarter of the fuel being used to spin the wheel.

Bob S.

[dnf0929]

In regards to the rate calculation I rely on stroke counter feature on Ergdata to ensure I'm really doing a 30r20, etc.

[jackarabit]

I assume the ErgData calculation depends on the PM stroke counter. That doesn't matter if the ErgData math avoids the PM rounding method, correct? This is a really helpful suggestion! Thanks. Jack

[jamesg]

Don' see how any accuracy can come from just 30 impulses per second.

[jackarabit]

Stroke n two n three n stroke n two n three n. Could work after a few hours of practice on the threes with the metronome going. Maybe fac toid fic toid cryp toid?

[Bob S.]

The monitor clock works fine for me. There is a small problem with it. It seems to drift off a bit and then correct itself every so often. But I have gotten used to dealing with that.

All in all, I find rate 20 the easiest to maintain on a regular basis. It is my UT1 rate.

Bob S.

[bonefixer]

The monitor clock works fine for me. There is a small problem with it. It seems to drift off a bit and then correct itself every so often.

Bob S.

I've noticed that. It seems to pause, and then jump. Probably the refresh rate of the display is not up to much. It does put me off a bit - perhaps I'll stop watching it so closely.

[Bob S.]

I've noticed that. It seems to pause, and then jump. Probably the refresh rate of the display is not up to much. It does put me off a bit - perhaps I'll stop watching it so closely.

To me, it is annoying, but I have gotten used to it and I don't feel that it has interfered with my using the clock to control my rate. Actually, I feel a little guilty about using it. I tend to stick with 12 (warm ups and cool downs only), 15 (UT2, plus WUs and CDs), 20 (UT1 and long distance TTS), 24 (AT work and medium distance TTs), and 30 (moderate intensity intervals). Those are the ones that are easy to do by the clock, although at 30, it is intense enough that I vary a bit. I have also worked out schemes for 18 and 22 - mainly for the Fletcher warm up. The proper way would be to master control of the rate at what ever value, ala the Wolverine plan, without using the clock as a crutch. But I am basically a lazy guy and take the easy way out.

Note: I do use other rates - for short TTs, sprint finishes, intense intervals, and, occasionally, deliberate high rate practice. But the bulk of my training pieces are done at 20 and 24. I try to do all of them at my (rather pitiful) 300 joules per stroke (i.e. 5 watt-minutes/stroke).

Bob S.