30r20 - fixed pace or fixed HR?

[hjs]

your killer 30R20 session - what pace is that in comparison with your 2K, or specifically, given my 2K of 7.00ish, what should my killer 30R20 pace be? I'll have a go at the same with 70%HRR and report back.

FWIW I did a session this week not killer but pretty close to max
30' sr20 @1:57.7 (214W)
7642m MHR164 (94%)

My 2k is 1:41.5 right now I suspect (hope!)

But lindsay is a sprinter, a same 2k rower more aerobicly based would do it a lot faster.

Roughly 30/20 is done around 70% of 2k power.

That said, for 2k a 30/20 is certainly not the best preperation, you need 2k paced and rated work.

[Carl Watts]

Not sure you want to row a killer 30R20, its more of a training pace so something day in day out that's still a sustainable pace after about 2 weeks when it really begins to cut in.

There is a big difference in rowing the odd blast and needing days to recover and or stuffing up your regular training rows compared to rowing 5 or 6 days a week, you simply have to slow it down and keep the HR away from your maximum if you want sustainable rowing, well over the age of 40 that's is when your recovery slows down. Just a couple of seconds off the pace makes a huge difference, try 2:00 to 2:05 pace.

[Butch91]

One of the benefits of doing regular HRR restricted 30r20's coupled with a good training plan is that you get to a point where your heart/lungs becomes so effective on the erg that you can do things like this - http://roadtosub6.blogspot.ie/2014/06/3 ... eo-to.html - 70% HRR (143 for me) 8,369m or 1:47.5. The thing with HRR rows is that you look to be as effective with each and every stroke as possible - concentrate on the technique which will help in other pieces.

[hjs]

One of the benefits of doing regular HRR restricted 30r20's coupled with a good training plan is that you get to a point where your heart/lungs becomes so effective on the erg that you can do things like this - http://roadtosub6.blogspot.ie/2014/06/3 ... eo-to.html - 70% HRR (143 for me) 8,369m or 1:47.5. The thing with HRR rows is that you look to be as effective with each and every stroke as possible - concentrate on the technique which will help in other pieces.

Downpoint of lowrate work strapped in, people often use a very long stroke, which gives them much more lenght per stroke compared to a higher rated stroke. Makes you very good at low rates, but it won,t transfer to a racing stroke well. Rowing strapless will limit this, but ofcourse make you slower, cause the stroke stays shorter.

[Livio Livius]

Following this topic as I include 2 a 3 rowing sessions p/w (one endurance as 10k - one short interval session x times max 1.000 mtr - one long interval session x times between 1.000 and 2.000 mtr) as triatleet and not sure what 70%HRR means in this case, 70% of maximum HR?

[hjs]

Following this topic as I include 2 a 3 rowing sessions p/w (one endurance as 10k - one short interval session x times max 1.000 mtr - one long interval session x times between 1.000 and 2.000 mtr) as triatleet and not sure what 70%HRR means in this case, 70% of maximum HR?

No. Heart Rate Reserve.

Say restpulse is 50, max is 190, reserve is 150

70% of that is 105,

Rest plus 70% makes 50 plus 105 = 155 as cap.

[lindsayh]

Following this topic as I include 2 a 3 rowing sessions p/w (one endurance as 10k - one short interval session x times max 1.000 mtr - one long interval session x times between 1.000 and 2.000 mtr) as triatleet and not sure what 70%HRR means in this case, 70% of maximum HR?

No. Heart Rate Reserve.
Say restpulse is 50, max is 190, reserve is 150
70% of that is 105,
Rest plus 70% makes 50 plus 105 = 155 as cap.

Sorry Henry I may just be a sprinter without a strong 30/20r but the maths is a little out!
190-50 = 140 = HRR (not 150)
70% of 140 = 98
50+98 = 148 = 70% HRR

[Livio Livius]

Following this topic as I include 2 a 3 rowing sessions p/w (one endurance as 10k - one short interval session x times max 1.000 mtr - one long interval session x times between 1.000 and 2.000 mtr) as triatleet and not sure what 70%HRR means in this case, 70% of maximum HR?

No. Heart Rate Reserve.
Say restpulse is 50, max is 190, reserve is 150
70% of that is 105,
Rest plus 70% makes 50 plus 105 = 155 as cap.

Sorry Henry I may just be a sprinter without a strong 30/20r but the maths is a little out!
190-50 = 140 = HRR (not 150)
70% of 140 = 98
50+98 = 148 = 70% HRR

Clear. This morning session although only 20 min out of the 30 min @20SPM http://tpks.ws/ksm7 . Max HR 171, rest HR 45 so HRR 133. Actual for the 20min 127 @ 159W or 2:10/500mtr. So I can push it a little bit up to 2:05-2:07 probably. Must say this workout you really need focus to keep the 20 .

[Butch91]

to get maximum benefit try and get within ten beats of your HRR cap within the first 3 minutes (after doing a few you'll work out where that is)

[hjs]

Sorry Henry I may just be a sprinter without a strong 30/20r but the maths is a little out!
190-50 = 140 = HRR (not 150)
70% of 140 = 98
50+98 = 148 = 70% HRR

As always, no patience to check what I brabble. Thx

[Carl Watts]

Clear. This morning session although only 20 min out of the 30 min @20SPM http://tpks.ws/ksm7 . Max HR 171, rest HR 45 so HRR 133. Actual for the 20min 127 @ 159W or 2:10/500mtr. So I can push it a little bit up to 2:05-2:07 probably. Must say this workout you really need focus to keep the 20 .

Hate to be the one to say it but the Concept 2 PM3 and PM4 are actually flawed when it comes to your "Average Rating" in the top line of the results on the monitor.

You can row in the 19's and the 21's and still get a 20 average and to date I still cannot figure out how it arrives at the number as its just not consistent, possibly its like an average of the average from each split, regardless its sometimes way out compared to an actual stroke counter I made. Pretty simple really the counter needs to show darn close to 600 at the finish of a 30R20 so +/- a couple of stokes is okay to allow a direct comparison to a previous result.

No idea why Concept 2 did not utilise a stoke counter into the firmware then do the math at the finish to give you an accurate spm to 10th's, I think mainly because the spm is pretty worthless when it comes to records all the focus is on distance/time and 500m pace. No one is really interested in you spm for PB's but its very useful for training if your going to start analysing your performance. Perhaps they finally fixed this in the PM5.

There is such a huge difference in rowing 19's and 21's you simply cannot compare the two, my HR jumps up in 6bpm average as I drop one spm at low ratings, 17spm is horrendous. The error percentage wise gets worse the lower the rating.

[Livio Livius]

How about using a metronome, any experience with that?

[bonefixer]

I watch the clock, and always start to pull on :00, :57, :54 etc. Even if my rhythm gets slightly out such that I pull on a 55 or a 53 once or twice, you soon get back in such that at the end I'll have pulled exactly 600 times.

[Carl Watts]

I think I would rather watch the live RowPro graphics than a clock or have to listen to something to give me exactly the right strokes.

Really the problem is with the monitor, it says you have done a 20spm row but you haven't really and cannot prove otherwise or gain any useful analysis of your results in RowPro without it being recorded accurately.

Such an easy fix in the monitor firmware, no idea how it got overlooked really, you get games you never use but the core data you need is missing.

Hoping the problem is fixed in RowPro instead one day, would be great if the Online rowing results recorded your average spm and even average heartrate one day, it moved a step closer in Version 4.3 with this as a tick box option to appear live on screen which is great to see what other people are rating at that your rowing with.

[Butch91]

Hate to be the one to say it but the Concept 2 PM3 and PM4 are actually flawed when it comes to your "Average Rating" in the top line of the results on the monitor.

It simply averages the numbers on the end of the split - does the same for HR

so say you row 20, 19, 20, 19, 20, 21 the average is 19.8 - which is rounded to 20 or does it round down - can't remember ....