Pete Plan Summer 2015 starts June 14

[gregsmith01748]

Even though the rankings are far from complete, I think that they are one of the best ways to measure relative progress. When I started I was in the 30th percentile of my age group and slowly worked my way up to the 90th over a few years.

I know that there are lots of faster people in my age group that don't post times, but I can only race people that show up.

I do think that the rankings are more in line with the actual population of rowers for the older age group categories than they are for open class athletes. Very few elite rowers post results due to competitive concerns.

[jackarabit]

One might think that increasing and maintaining physical fitness would be both stimulus and goal in a feedback loop. For those who have the pursuit of physical culture engrained as a lifetime habit, it no doubt is both. For those who wish to correct the ravages of debilitating injury and sickness, there is only one choice with or without the little gold stars. For the very fortunate, the cups and bowls are markers on the path. In the long view not much different than scrapbooking.

[f2d]

I did a 5K today @ 2:05.2, which is a slower place than what I "should" be doing based on my 2K pace (but I can do a 500m faster, guess I'm just better with shorter distances). The thing is, for longer distances, if I don't pace myself conservatively I have a hard time carrying that much lactate through 5000 meters.

I should be able to get that 5K pace under 2 minutes soon though.

[jackarabit]

f2d, there are plenty of long 10-15k steady state pieces prescribed in the Pete dailies. I'm going to do a course of 60-75' ergs increasing by 5' a day coinciding with the last week of the Dog Daze Challenge. Not sure if this will improve 5k time but it does get me into the lactate bath state well before the welcome finish. Jack

[f2d]

I do 10k for my steady state pieces. My last once was 2:10.6, which again, is slower than it "should" be. I don't think it's necessarily a problem as long as my times for both short and long pieces improve, since not everybody is going to fit within the formula used to figure out theoretical wattages.

Btw, for 5k 20 rating pieces, what "should" those times be compared to a 5k uncapped?

[G-dub]

A question if any experienced folks are out there: so it you go fast the first 500 you carry lactate (or is it lactic acid) into the rest of the piece which makes it tough. I have decided that 32-34 is a good rate for me for a 2K for most of it based on interval sessions. So say in my case if I blast away at 1:42 @ 36-38 rate I would be doing something dumb even thought it might feel good at the moment. But what if I am at 28-30 rate and I am getting power out of the stroke that is below target pace. For instance, it feels good to go at 28 - 30 and 1:44 - 1:45. Is that bad too? I other words does lower rate with more power do the same thing to you as faster pace and faster rate in the first part? Just curious and I don't want to see for myself, necessarily!

[jackarabit]

f2d writes:

Btw, for 5k 20 rating pieces, what "should" those times be compared to a 5k uncapped?

I have a recent 30'r20 @ 2:21.4 and a free rate 30' @ 2:16 the following week. 5-6" for me.

[jackarabit]

Glenn, you're a cyclist. Legs hurt? Shift down and spin. Lungs hurt? Shift up and walk em down. I think I make similar rate adjustments on the erg. You take the troops that need rest out of the line and send in subs. Lactate tolerance? Man, after my curious success/debacle yesterday, I just don't know except for the bit about flat pace being most efficient use of energy.

[f2d]

A question if any experienced folks are out there: so it you go fast the first 500 you carry lactate (or is it lactic acid) into the rest of the piece which makes it tough. I have decided that 32-34 is a good rate for me for a 2K for most of it based on interval sessions. So say in my case if I blast away at 1:42 @ 36-38 rate I would be doing something dumb even thought it might feel good at the moment. But what if I am at 28-30 rate and I am getting power out of the stroke that is below target pace. For instance, it feels good to go at 28 - 30 and 1:44 - 1:45. Is that bad too? I other words does lower rate with more power do the same thing to you as faster pace and faster rate in the first part? Just curious and I don't want to see for myself, necessarily!

I think doing it at a lower stroke rate than your norm is actually worse. Because more powerful pulls create more lactic acid. Hence the purpose of doing r20 pieces.

[G-dub]

But lets just say for the sake of the discussion that the power to rate ratio is the same. I don't know if there is even a discussion here, since the answer is probably that anything below target pace will hurt you to some degree in the end.

[f2d]

But lets just say for the sake of the discussion that the power to rate ratio is the same. I don't know if there is even a discussion here, since the answer is probably that anything below target pace will hurt you to some degree in the end.

If you're below target pace after you're finished with the first 200 meters you might as well stop. Digging yourself out of a hole is damn near impossible. It's tough physically to catch up, and it'll just crush you mentally if you're behind that early already. Stopping, taking a 5 minute break, and taking another shot at it would likely have better results than trying to catch up.

Oh yeah, to answer the question, yeah, anything below target pace at the start is probably going to kill you.

[jackarabit]

Why would anyone be averaging slower than target after 200m? Glenn said earlier he's under target pace in 3 strokes. A brittle old fossil and novice like me can drive average 10-15" below (faster than) target pace in 5-10. There's a sprint or at least some big strokes on both ends. That's the traditional OTW 2k modus operandi. Ain't like you're driving Madam in the Rolls and afraid the bud vase will tremble.Jack

[f2d]

Why would anyone be averaging slower than target after 200m? Glenn said earlier he's under target pace in 3 strokes. A brittle old fossil and novice like me can drive average 10-15" below (faster than) target pace in 5-10. There's a sprint or at least some big strokes on both ends. That's the traditional OTW 2k modus operandi. Ain't like you're driving Madam in the Rolls and afraid the bud vase will tremble.Jack

He's talking about hypothetically going slower for the first 500 instead of faster. (eg. dropping his rating and keeping the power per stroke the same).

[hjs]

A question if any experienced folks are out there: so it you go fast the first 500 you carry lactate (or is it lactic acid) into the rest of the piece which makes it tough. I have decided that 32-34 is a good rate for me for a 2K for most of it based on interval sessions. So say in my case if I blast away at 1:42 @ 36-38 rate I would be doing something dumb even thought it might feel good at the moment. But what if I am at 28-30 rate and I am getting power out of the stroke that is below target pace. For instance, it feels good to go at 28 - 30 and 1:44 - 1:45. Is that bad too? I other words does lower rate with more power do the same thing to you as faster pace and faster rate in the first part? Just curious and I don't want to see for myself, necessarily!

Every rate which its not optimal, either to low or high will cost extra energy. Don,t low rate.

[Galeere]

Did it
2k warm-up, faster than usual @ avg. 8:11.3 with 4 sprints @ avg. SPM 26
Stretching for about 4-5 min. (especially legs)
around 20 deep breaths - 30 sec. rest - another around 20 deep breaths (=> refer to Fletcher, thanks a ton to Jack, these breaths made the difference)
Set up for standard intervals (sorry about that):
500m @ 1:43.4 (with fast 7 strokes and averaging sub 1:42 for the first 200m as a result
500m @ 1:44.5 (taking Eds advice for 5-6 weaker strokes @ 900m-mark)
500m @ 1:43.9 (the end coming closer, everything hurting, just wanting to get it over with and finish)
500m @ 1:42.4 (felt like hd the whole way but if you got that far you simply don´t; nothin left for a sprint to speak off but went a little under 1:42 for the last 200m)
Total 6:54.2, ranked in the top 10% of my age group
As for statistics (used a PM 5 with a link to my ipad, failed to sync but managed an ind-V-Score)
SPM were 33/32/32/33, DF @ 146 (I like it a little more)
Stroke count 225, drive length 1.24, drive speed 2.25 m/sec, avg. force 132lb, peak 201lb
max HR 170 (which is my max of course)

=> I am done with the 2k-training for now and will concentrate on long-range-training. Plan to go for FM with a first goal of sub 3hrs. Thanks to everybody, especially to my friend Glenn for his set-up of the Pete-plan and support, Jack for his encouragement, funny postings and the reference to Fletcher, coaches Greg and Henry for their immense help and insight, Ed for his anti-hd-remedy, Magnus, f2d and all the others chiming in and sharing their work!!
Off to some large beers and a cigar now , good luck to you Glenn, you really have to try the deep-breath-exercise. Don´t overdo it (I stopped after 5-8sec into starting O2-induced-diziness)