Pete Plan Summer 2015 starts June 14

[hjs]

Right Henry, I think you hit the nail on the head. The Pete Plan is great for getting more fit and fast than I've probably ever been and pushing mentally, but to nail a 2K test it seems there needs to be a couple of weeks tacked on to sharpen up for the actual test. Like to do some fast 1500's or sub max 2K's to get the distance and pacing ingrained. And yes, I am mental!

depends a bit, if you start the PP plan a bit conservative you can it for a while, if you start missing sessions you are in trouble.

But than again, I myself more or less never follow a strict plan roughly I do, but its a lot on feel.

[kacken66]

Hard distance 5 k, 1:54:2 25 spm. Saticfied with that, feeling progress and better technique.

Agree with Henry, outcom of sessions depends often of the pace. My experience is that to much focus on your pb time can put you over the edge in the interval sessions.
I try to set the pace combination of, daily form, heartrate and my plan.
Said before, keep the tough sessions tough and the light should be light.

Jack// sounds like a nice trip!

[gregsmith01748]

I always liked the 5x1500 the best of all the long interval workouts and I think it has to do with mindset and pace targets. If you look at the 1500m interval as 500m longer than the 1000, and try to cling to some thought of holding close to a 2K race pace, then you are toast. If you think of it as a 5K pace session, you are much better off. Essentially, I am at very close to the same pace for the 5x1500 and the 4x2K. I feel awesome through the first 3 intervals, the second to last stings, and the final rep requires a lot of focus to hold or improve the pace for a negative split.

You have to keep in mind that you have an extra interval to do versus the 4x2K. And comparing it to the 1K is interesting. The total number of intervals is 1 more, and the total work distance is nearly double (7500m vs 4000m). If you can do a 2K race pace or close for this workout, then you are due for a big PR on your next 2K.

I'm with Henry on this. I think you guys are edging toward racing your training. I haven't seen specific research to support this, but I suspect that the impact on training effect of slowing the pace down by 1 second is probably immeasurably small. And it certainly makes training a more enjoyable, and predictable activity. It's good to dig deep every once in a while to make sure that being in the hurt box is familiar and demystified, but doing it 3 times a week is an invitation to burn out mentally if not physically.

[G-dub]

Thanks for the feedback, but I think there is some confusion. I am doing the long intervals around 5K pace and the short ones around 2K pace. What I was saying was that it seems like there should be an interval session that has you at 2K pace for a little longer than 1K, say 1500 M, so that its not a shock distance wise when you actually sit for a 2K test. So I said why not 3 X 1500 which equals 4500 M, which is about the same distance as the other short ones. See what I mean?

[Edward4492]

A couple of thoughts guys. Stop quitting the work outs. It's a horrible habit that will be hard to break. In my personal training and erg training I emphasis the importance of "wins". If you're trying to build up your bench press you need a long string of success's. You don't go for a max every night. Missing lifts on a regular basis early-on in training starts to change the way you mentally approach a lift. You already have the mentality that it's okay to miss....you do it all the time.Doubt begins to creep in. Same with 2k erg racing. I've taken to doing a 2k every 7 - 10 days....but not a PR attempt! Just a decent effort. Just another hard work out. Last week's was 7:13 as I re-call. No matter how bad I feel..I finish. Two weeks ago I felt like crap, almost HD'ed. Just backed off for a few strokes and kept going, ended up at 7:17. The big mistake you can make is assuming that doing a 2k at 5s to 10s off your PR pace will somehow feel relatively "easy". It doesn't! It still sucks! But you start racking up "wins". If you stay away from doing a 2k for months at a time you'll be a head case by the time it comes to do one. Once a week I do a 5000m at 20r, sub 20 minutes. This weeks was at 210w, 1:58.6 pace. Not a PR by any means; but a good solid repeatable work out. It's a hard work out....but I don't dread doing it.

Any period of interval training needs to be done with the first interval manageable to borderline easy. If you increase the pace for each interval and finish strong, you'll have a basis for the next session. These work outs need to be finished. Make them do-able....and do them! If you even pace all of your intervals and you can't hold pace at the end, finish and adjust for next time.

[gregsmith01748]

Thanks for the feedback, but I think there is some confusion. I am doing the long intervals around 5K pace and the short ones around 2K pace. What I was saying was that it seems like there should be an interval session that has you at 2K pace for a little longer than 1K, say 1500 M, so that its not a shock distance wise when you actually sit for a 2K test. So I said why not 3 X 1500 which equals 4500 M, which is about the same distance as the other short ones. See what I mean?

I think these type of workouts are really valuable in the last few weeks before a race or key time trial. One thing I like to do about a week before a 2K race is a 1 mile time trial. At 1608m, it's just enough shorter to be able to really test if your target pace will work. Prior to that, I think that race simulations are not the most effective way to use training sessions.

[hjs]

Thanks for the feedback, but I think there is some confusion. I am doing the long intervals around 5K pace and the short ones around 2K pace. What I was saying was that it seems like there should be an interval session that has you at 2K pace for a little longer than 1K, say 1500 M, so that its not a shock distance wise when you actually sit for a 2K test. So I said why not 3 X 1500 which equals 4500 M, which is about the same distance as the other short ones. See what I mean?

Way to hard, one 1500 at 2k pace is enough to finish you. Its 100% impossible to do reps of 1500 meter at 2k pace. You should stop looking at your 2k goal. Focus on your training, at the end you will see what it brings you.

[G-dub]

OK OK - I am outed. I am way too focused on 2K time as usual. BUT the notion in the PP of using your last average time as well as having a faster last temps one into going too hard. The plan is built on continuous improvement so one can easily feel like it has to happen or its a failure session.

[Bob S.]

OK OK - I am outed. I am way too focused on 2K time as usual. BUT the notion in the PP of using your last average time as well as having a faster last temps one into going too hard. The plan is built on continuous improvement so one can easily feel like it has to happen or its a failure session.

Obviously, it can't go on forever. Everyone reaches a peak and then declines. It is not a sharp peak and it is hard to define exactly when it happens. But there will come a season when you realize that you can no longer do what you were able to do in the previous season. I hit a post-op peak about 3 years after surgery and have been on a decline ever since. No plan can reverse that. Erging is just part of trying to keep the rate of decline down to a slow gallop.

Bob S.

[G-dub]

OK - that settles it. I'm going to complete this weeks requirements yet undone (4 X 2K) then do the third week after that knowing that it will start a few days later. I recall having to give myself the same pep talk this time last cycle - something about finishing each workout and not getting wigged out over time goals. I'm a slow learner I guess.

[G-dub]

Cycle 2: Week 2 - Hard Distance: 30 minutes at 7417 meters, average HR 159 (just below AT) didn't bust the HR out of AT until the last few minutes, so it wasn't too hard.

Did first 5:00 in 2:10.5 then walked it down every 5 minutes at 2:04, 2:02, 2:00, 1:58, 1:56.

Yippee - I finished a hard distance workout. Maybe it's because I was supposed to do an easy day

[f2d]

Thanks for the feedback, but I think there is some confusion. I am doing the long intervals around 5K pace and the short ones around 2K pace. What I was saying was that it seems like there should be an interval session that has you at 2K pace for a little longer than 1K, say 1500 M, so that its not a shock distance wise when you actually sit for a 2K test. So I said why not 3 X 1500 which equals 4500 M, which is about the same distance as the other short ones. See what I mean?

Way to hard, one 1500 at 2k pace is enough to finish you. Its 100% impossible to do reps of 1500 meter at 2k pace. You should stop looking at your 2k goal. Focus on your training, at the end you will see what it brings you.

I agree with this.

There's no way in hell I could do 3 x 1500 at all out 2k pace. 1500 meters into a 2K I'm dying already and if I stopped for even a stroke at that point I'm not getting back on for at least a few hours. The last 500 meters is almost a pure test of pain tolerance.

BUT.. everyone is different. The pete plan is just 1 random guy's training plan that worked for him. I think it's a good starting point but if you think you can do something else more effectively there's no reason not to make modifications. And if you never choke on a piece you're probably not pushing yourself hard enough. Some of this is pain tolerance training, and at some point everyone's going to hit a limit.

[jackarabit]

I see nothing anywhere to indicate that Marston thinks or thought that 3x1500 or 5x or whatever couid be or should be done at proposed race pace. Certainly not that random an individual! Jim Grattan is always mentioning sharpening pieces of less than full distance, say 1750m and NO end sprint. No mention of repeats as in interval training.

As Henry says, do the training first and then suffer ONCE to catch the brass ring. Don't drink three buckets of beer in the morning to establish whether you should wager on yourself to down just one in the afternoon. I did ALL the work (six sessions) in the four weeks previous to week starting 7/18. First week of PP thread, I did five. Did A HM as the hard distance in the second week. Prior to the thread i did 6 weeks of four sessions per week. It can be done, even by a 68 yr old of questionable athletic pedigree. Jack

[Bob S.]

Prior to the thread i did 6 weeks of four sessions per week. It can be done, even by a 68 yr old of questionable athletic pedigree. Jack

I would say that a cyclist who has done a number of century rides has enough athletic pedigree. The longest I was ever able to do was 96 miles, but it had a several thousand foot descent in the first 20 miles or so.

Bob S.

[G-dub]

Geez guys, so maybe it's + 2 or + 3 or + 5 or + 7 of 2K. All I was saying is that I was curious why there wasn't intervals that were longer than 1000 at a faster pace so as to be better prepared for the length of 2K. So I skipped a session this week - whatever. So Iit was a dumb idea - whatever. Didn't think it warranted a Vince Lombardi lecture.