Guide for levels

[speedy]

I poked on Concept''s website and so far didn't find anything regarding what I am about to ask for.

I know there isn't really a hard rule as to when your level is beginner, intermediate, advanced, etc. but I am sure there is chart/cheat-sheet if you will that based on averages of years of crunching numbers that lists (and will try to explain what I am looking for as best as I can) that lets you know where you are at and what you should aim for.

So to make it less confusing lets say you follow the 2000-meter program. Then take that program and being at at damper settings 1-10. The speed that the 2000-meters is accomplished at and those times will show a chart as to what level you are on. So to further the explanation: lets say damper setting #3 at the 2000-meter routine and you finish 10-minutes and 36-seconds that would put you at.... Get what I am looking for?

[speedy]

Oh wait, I poked around the blog and stumbled on this. Might be a good chart. Can anyone confirm is this a reliable chart to follow?

http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/tr ... eChart.pdf

[hjs]

I poked on Concept''s website and so far didn't find anything regarding what I am about to ask for.

I know there isn't really a hard rule as to when your level is beginner, intermediate, advanced, etc. but I am sure there is chart/cheat-sheet if you will that based on averages of years of crunching numbers that lists (and will try to explain what I am looking for as best as I can) that lets you know where you are at and what you should aim for.

So to make it less confusing lets say you follow the 2000-meter program. Then take that program and being at at damper settings 1-10. The speed that the 2000-meters is accomplished at and those times will show a chart as to what level you are on. So to further the explanation: lets say damper setting #3 at the 2000-meter routine and you finish 10-minutes and 36-seconds that would put you at.... Get what I am looking for?

No clue what you are asking. Setting 1/10 means nothing, its about drag. In general newbies use a high drag, toprowers use settings between 110/140 drag. Higher makes the strokes to fast to be able to use them. Only for sprinting higher drags are usefull if you are fast and very strong.

[Bob S.]

Oh wait, I poked around the blog and stumbled on this. Might be a good chart. Can anyone confirm is this a reliable chart to follow?

http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/tr ... eChart.pdf

Reliable, yes. Useful? For what? You can calculate any those numbers that you might happen to need from that chart without having to try and remember where you filed it. Nothing on it has anything to do with drag factor or camper setting. What did you have in mind?

Bob S.

[speedy]

Oh wait, I poked around the blog and stumbled on this. Might be a good chart. Can anyone confirm is this a reliable chart to follow?

http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/tr ... eChart.pdf

Reliable, yes. Useful? For what? You can calculate any those numbers that you might happen to need from that chart without having to try and remember where you filed it. Nothing on it has anything to do with drag factor or camper setting. What did you have in mind?

Bob S.

A study/chart that was made based on whatever that says, at damper #1 2000KM at X-Time puts you about at this level.

Now you guys mention the drag, isn't the drag more controlled by the force and amount of pulls down as well as the damper? Well then I don't see why not a chart couldn't be made after charting 100's to 1000 of users at various damper settings to get a feel where beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels are.

I might be missing this entirely but to me the drag is as much dictated by the damper as it is by the force and speed the person is pulling at within a block of time or/and distance.

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There were 2 posts that got me thinking of this one was a person telling them based on the numbers they gave that they were going very slow on the rower where the other is from here (couldn't find the last one but I will look a bit more.

I don't get it - if high drag factor slows the boat, and this corresponds with moving the damper up or down, then why is the drag factor a matter of preference - intuitively i would think lower drag means a faster time in reaching your goal distance. But I know from reading that is not correct - anyone can tell me why?

A low drag means you have to stroke faster and more precise. High drag gives you more time per stroke and is easier.

High drag does not slow the boat. It means a heavy boat with a lot of drag.

You are confusing speed of different boats with erging. A faster boat means you need a faster stroke to catch the water. This is like a low drag with a fast spinning fan. A slow boat means, you need a slower stroke to catch the water, like high drag, with a slow spinning fan.

Number one is speed. If you erg with faster speed per 500 nomatter what drag of strokerrate you use more energy.

From this thread http://www.c2forum.com/posting.php?mode ... 3&p=286856

[Bob S.]

The drag is measured by the monitor on the recovery, by the rate at which the wheel slows down. It can't be affected by the elements of the drive.

Bob S.

[speedy]

The drag is measured by the monitor on the recovery, by the rate at which the wheel slows down. It can't be affected by the elements of the drive.

Bob S.

Based on that then how do you know the drag #'s are valid at all?

This is getting so complicated I am at the point I am going to say to hell with it and just row and stop worrying and trying to understand the particulars.

[Bob S.]

This is getting so complicated I am at the point I am going to say to hell with it and just row and stop worrying and trying to understand the particulars.

Probably the best way to go at it. Of course, you do have to have the drag factor at some value or other and the simplest way to go on that is to accept the advice from C2 (and many on this forum) to keep it in the range 110-140. Many people have come to this forum asking where to set the damper lever for best results. It is all spelled out on the C2 website in practical terms. It is not really necessary to dig into any deeper.

Bob S.

[speedy]

Thanks Bob.

[jackarabit]

When speaking of establishing "levels," James G's formula for targeting watts output per kilo of "fit" weight for erg training is a good place to start. Think it's 1.5 to 2 watts/kilo; fit weight being an "ideal" weight for a given height based on the BMI.

Example: Rowing Johnny weighs 75 kilo but his fit or ideal weight is 70 kilos. He should be able to, or should attempt to, produce between 105 and 140 watts average during training sessions. This guideline is both a training prescription and a gauge of progress.

Peer group performance comparisons or rankings (by age, sex, and weight) are available for recognized distances and times on the C2 Log.

A pace chart is a quick reference for finding distance covered, or elapsed time over a distance, at a given average pace. Not a school exam. Jack

[hjs]

The drag is measured by the monitor on the recovery, by the rate at which the wheel slows down. It can't be affected by the elements of the drive.

Bob S.

Based on that then how do you know the drag #'s are valid at all?

This is getting so complicated I am at the point I am going to say to hell with it and just row and stop worrying and trying to understand the particulars.

You make it complicated. The drag is mostly a matter of where the settings are (1/10) if you row at a certain speed the drag will be the same.

That said, take a fast rower and he will be fast on every drag. The same for a slow one, nomatter what drag he stayes slow.

Third point, good rowers have a strong stroke, they don,t need high drag to get enough speed. To high a drag even gives them to much speed to keep going arobicly. Erging in itself is pretty simple. 80/90 % of your training should be low rate high volume, moderate intensity. Everything else is just fluff and not usefull. Close to race season 2 work is usefull.
Sprinting is an other matter.

[jackarabit]

Must have been wonderful back in the day! Just two different sprocket ratios and no bloody louvres on the side.

[Bob S.]

Must have been wonderful back in the day! Just two different sprocket ratios and no bloody louvres on the side.

With a PM on an old B, I never heard of drag factor until I got a PM3 10 years later, and then it took several months before I became aware of it.

Bob S.

[jag]

I know there isn't really a hard rule as to when your level is beginner, intermediate, advanced, etc. but I am sure there is chart/cheat-sheet if you will that based on averages of years of crunching numbers that lists (and will try to explain what I am looking for as best as I can) that lets you know where you are at and what you should aim for.

Ignoring the question of damper setting (set it to whatever makes you feel good). If you are asking how to gauge how well you are performing relative to everyone else, I use the C2 Online Logbook Rankings page, to compare my distance and age to everyone who keeps track of their times: http://log.concept2.com/rankings.asp. Set the distance, etc and click the "View Rankings" button, and at the top of the next page you'll see where the 50th percentile, etc are. If your time is better than that, then you're better than half the people who are logging their times, etc.