How many Gym users vs Erg owners ? - Apps potential ?

[Carl Watts]

Just an interesting question that's probably impossible to answer accurately.

I would only be guessing but probably 60-80% of Erg users don't actually own an Erg and use it exclusively at a Gym.

Potentially this is a huge untapped market for Apps on a mobile device and things should really begin to take off over the next few years.

[Balkan boy]

I use a Model C PM2 at the gym, but I would get my own erg if they were available here.
I wouldn't mind using a smartphone app at the gym. Nothing like RowPro, though.

[Hanzo]

I have my own, I love the easy access. Just put on the shorts, and get ready in 2 minute. And I can row while the wife is out and junior is sleeping.

[quickstepper]

Started out with the rower at gym. I always wanted to get one and finally did last year.

Love that fact that I can buy the exact same machine that's at the gym for a reasonable price. It's difficult to find top quality elipticals or treadmills that aren't really expensive. Also the less expensive ones at most fitness stores just aren't the same quality and they feel "off".

As Hanzo stated the easy access of having one at home is great. I don't have to worry about missing a workout. I can hop on for 10 minutes if that's all I have time for plus the kids can see me work out and I hope that inspires them to keep a healthy lifestyle as the age as well. Not to mention the way these are built I can probably leave it in my will to one of them many decades down the line

[jackarabit]

Might there be a way to firm up the question by polling the 9300+ souls currently listed as registered users of the C2 forum and logbook in the US? Maybe the users of Free Spirits and Indoor Sports in the UK? Carl is right that machines do change hands after a few yrs of little or no use. Owners are not necessarily more dedicated than gym rowers. On the other hand, a sizable number of gym rowers of my experience are only interested in 2 to 5' rowing the roller coaster while watching calories on the PM. These casual users typically don't know their arse from a hole in the ground and can't be bothered to read the instructions for use in the monitor menu. Don't think this crowd will exhibit much patience for beta testing and crowd funding. Jack

[quickstepper]

Might there be a way to firm up the question by polling the 9300+ souls currently listed as registered users of the C2 forum and logbook in the US? Maybe the users of Free Spirits and Indoor Sports in the UK? Carl is right that machines do change hands after a few yrs of little or no use. Owners are not necessarily more dedicated than gym rowers. On the other hand, a sizable number of gym rowers of my experience are only interested in 2 to 5' rowing the roller coaster while watching calories on the PM. These casual users typically don't know their arse from a hole in the ground and can't be bothered to read the instructions for use in the monitor menu. Don't think this crowd will exhibit much patience for beta testing and crowd funding. Jack

Personnaly I use my home rower to supplement the workouts on the rower at the gym.

Agreed about the lack of knowledge around ergs. Even among the trainers at the gym which has been highlighted on these forums many times before. I cringe when I see them putting someone on an erg for the first time, sometimes for their very first time at the gym. They leave the dial at 10 (because everyone before them put it to that position as well) and let the roller coaster start. You'd think they'd be worried about liability and back injuries. Then again the client's are barely moving the handle. On the plus side for me anyway... After a few sessions like this they don't want to go back on the machine so it keeps it less busy for me.

Maybe if they stuck a big ole tv on it people would use it more. They could then paddle along, not focused and not getting any benefit from using a great piece of equipment. Just like every other fitness machine. I swear most people are like zombies on exercise machines. May as well be walking in a mall instead of taking up a spot on the treadmill or eliptical. If you're texting you're not working hard enough.

On the app side... I have rowpro but have only used it a few times. Wish the scenery would change a bit more. Haven't gone into the gyms I use and upgraded their software on the pm3 so can't use ergdata. Downloaded boat coach too but haven't tried it out yet.

[dwalk]

I have one at home(PM3), two at the gym at work, and two at the Y. I row at lunch at work when I have no time at home and sometime use the ones at the Y(they aren't well maintained), but mostly use mine. I do not use any apps, but I do have a Polar HR monitor I use sometimes.

[jackarabit]

At this time, I'm guessing what the crossfitters buy will make or break the independent developers of piggyback software to be used in combination with the C2 PM. Emphasis on strength vs. endurance is going to challenge the metrics put in place by several generations of roadies and long distance runners. Jack

[Carl Watts]

On the app side... I have rowpro but have only used it a few times. Wish the scenery would change a bit more. Haven't gone into the gyms I use and upgraded their software on the pm3 so can't use ergdata. Downloaded boat coach too but haven't tried it out yet.

Yes the scenery hence I suggested venue rowing, certain distances and times could feature complete courses you could choose from around the world.

Also that's the problem with Gyms, they don't update firmware on older monitors and its going to take years for the PM5's to start filtering through so you can use the Apps. Most of the monitors that I repair are still PM2's so you can only begin to imaging how long its going to be before PM5's are the majority out there, your looking at up to 10 years.

[hjs]

Almost every gym user I have seen, just hops up, and just moves up and down a bit. Most often on the just row setting. They have no clue about things like pace etc. No way such people will need any online kind of gatgets.

The problem with gym members is that they are not serious into sports. Yes, the guys who do serious weight often train pretty hard. But most serious athletes will run or bike outside or at the sportsclub. Gym goers are often only doing for health or weights reasons.

For myself, Only erg at home, not in the gym anymore and only erg via the pm. Training online could nice, but my way of training is not very suited to do so.

[Carl Watts]

I agree in part but the rise of the competitive Crossfit Gym goer will see a market appear for Apps.

The problem is the perceived market vs the number of users that will actually purchase an App and more important still continue to use it over time. Online rowing is only any good if there are others online as well.

To me RowPro is the most awesome bit of software that has transformed the use of the Erg, however I would be the first to admit the majority of people that know about it don't use it.

The second problem is marketing the idea, just having a Website is not good enough. Just about everyone I have spoken to that I repair a monitor for has still never heard of RowPro.

[Edward4492]

Gym rowers and gym ergs are a real hot button with me. Recently started a small side business servicing ergs. Stopped by four crossfit boxes so far....have not been turned away yet (many thanks to Carl and C2 Jon for fielding my questions on the forum, HUGE help!). The ergs I see are trashed. I've re-built a couple model "C's" and seem to have struck a nerve.And as for gym rowers? I am a personal trainer at a local gym, specializing in rowing (obviously). Nobody there including the other trainers knew anything about rowing. I've held some classes and am starting to develop something of a following, but amazingly I get a lot of push back when offering even the most basic advice. A frail older women with the damper on "10" because lowering it makes it too easy. She looked like she was pulling a pail of water up from a well. The women who positively glared at me when I informed her that the 400cal on the screen was per hour, so her 5 minutes of rowing burned about 33 cals.....not the 400 she was beaming about. Guess I shoulda kept my mouth shut. And some of the muscle heads blasting away at a 1:45 pace for a minute, then another five minutes at 2:00, all on a "10" and a 36 spm. Jump up, give me a self- satisfied look as I cruise along half way through a 20r/ 1:58 5k. Kicked the "rowing specialists's" ass.....he ain't got nuthin'.

But I've also got a bit of a cult following of semi-serious ergers. In particular five women in their fifties who did a four week class with me, paid attention, and are putting in some serious work outs. A couple of young guys are getting into it. The one kid almost had me in the 500m (won't be long). At 22 yrs old, 6-1 and 210 he'll be under 1:30 shortly. This Friday I'm doing a very short rowing WOD at one of the local crossfits.And I'm coaching a 15 yr old trying to make the boat in September. So....there's signs of life.

But I'm afraid it will always be a small, niche, group.

[Balkan boy]

The women who positively glared at me when I informed her that the 400cal on the screen was per hour, so her 5 minutes of rowing burned about 33 cals.....not the 400 she was beaming about.

That's funny.

My experience with a single erg at the gym is that nothing and nobody will progress until a user shows personal interest and goes on the web to discover the technique and nuances for himself. I'm completely ignored by trainers when I talk about C2, not to mention the 'damper 10 users'.
It's a big leap from typical gym users described above (same everywhere, I think) to someone who understands the basics of erging/rowing.

It's a niche within a niche but it could still take off. Crossfiters are really putting the C2 brand out there. I'm not impressed by their methods, but they are the driving force of fitness these days.

Ultimately, Concept2 company should step up with more advanced PMs or at least open the door for 3rd parties.

[Edward4492]

Crossfit and crew are the two opportunities. I live in a hot bed area for crew, southern New Jersey. Gotta be careful not to go against the kid's coaches; I make it clear I'm totally "erg-centric". Listen to your coach. I've only spoken with two coaches, real nice receptive guys; but surprisingly weak on competitive erging. One of the coaches has his guys doing rate change work outs (22-24-26 etc) with-out specifying any wattage or pace. Very receptive when we spoke....just never gave it any thought.

The cross fitters are fun to work with. They're receptive....they want to learn and are used to being in an environment where technique and form are stressed. And they're strong. Many of them are "cardio challenged". They're used to attacking work outs and going till they drop. They haven't learned to make "micro adjustments" in pace to keep from blowing. I see lots of "HD's" during 2k tests. I've sat next to more than one and "cox'ed' them to a PR with simple, logical pacing. Lots of opportunity with the crossfit community. After a year many of the crossfitters start to specialize a bit. Many of then go the olympic lifting route. They're starting to show up at local erg events. You get their attention when you beat a couple of 30 something kids by 10s at the local 2k (at age 58 LWT). They want to know more. Rowing becomes an area where the endurance athlete can make an impact.

I've actually been using my erg repair approach to gain access, fix the ergs and start the training conversation. I'm doing a short rowing WOD at a local box tomorrow night, hopefully leading to a full blown half day seminar.

[Galeere]

Gym rowers and gym ergs are a real hot button with me. Recently started a small side business servicing ergs. Stopped by four crossfit boxes so far....have not been turned away yet (many thanks to Carl and C2 Jon for fielding my questions on the forum, HUGE help!). The ergs I see are trashed. I've re-built a couple model "C's" and seem to have struck a nerve.And as for gym rowers?

Ed, how are they trashed and what can I do to prevent that from happening to mine?