Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I am sure he will blow the record away this weekend </td></tr></table><br /><br />No need to have these expectations, George. I am in _very_ good overall condition, but I haven't been able to sharpen much yet. I am not really ready to row a 2K, but I think it is good to try and see where I am at, so I am going to do it anyway. I suspect that I will get _loads_ better at the specific task of rowing a 2K over the next three weeks as I keep doing my double sessions of sharpening workouts. The 2K is a certain sort of thing. You need to get used to being anaerobic, etc. You need to get used to rowing at a high rate with relaxation and rhythm. And so forth. This doesn't take that long, but it does take a little time, a few weeks of good sharpening. I will be doing that over the next few weeks. Having a great overall fitness foundation makes it so that you can do quality sharpening--every day; and my overall fitness foundation is great at the moment.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All the best for a not too "nut-busting" first race (in a long time) "Hat Man"! </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks, Paul. <br /><br />Again, I want to say that many of my good feelings going into this sharpening period are due to you and your very good advice about how to improve rowing technique if you can't row worth a damn, as I couldn't three years ago. <br /><br />Regardless of what you might think, I am also well aware that a fairly extended period of training that concentrates on a range of specific, pace-based training pieces aiming at precise indications of performance is indeed important in rowing if you want to achieve your best performances. This is good advice, too.<br /><br />Perhaps because I am still a beginner, I suppose I am just taking your advice in bits and pieces at the moment, more serially than simultaneously. This might not lead to the best performances, but it seems to be my most comfortable way of operating. Now that my stroke is together, your advice about more bouts of specific, pace-based training might become much more important if I want to continue to improve over this next rowing season.<br /><br />At my age, I have many other things to worry about, so I have to fit rowing into my head and life as I can, not as I might if I were 20 years old. It can't at all be the highest priority. It's just a hobby!<br /> <br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So, what was the point of you asking about a 4 x 2k @ 1:38, just more sidetracking?<br /><br />The indicator pieces are simply just good workouts, not races. The more important thing that they indicate is not that you CAN do something you think you can, but that it's more than likely you CAN NOT, and require more training.<br /><br />For instance, if I was expecting to do a 6:00, I'd be inclined to try 8 x 1:30 x 2 min rest @ 1:30 S10PS R33, adn if I did not complete it on target the plan would be rolled back to reflect the average pace achieved during the intervals. The intervals would not have been nearly as painful as a 2k test due to the "breaks".  </td></tr></table><br /><br />This is indeed true, once everything else is in place. But I think this is the major rub. Most rowers in and around this forum that are in and around my age take this kind of training to be everything.<br /><br />Big, BIG mistake.<br /><br />_Disasterous_ training.<br /><br />First things first. When doing other things, don't forget first things.<br /><br />BTW, you greatly underestimate, I think, your assessment of how accurate my impression is of what I can do and can't. I am not a novice at predictions of this sort. I have been an athlete my whole life and I am quite a bit older than you.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Paul--<br /><br />I suppose the other thing that would be convincing to me is if you yourself could follow your own advice and demonstrate the results. For instance, in 10 years or so, if you are rowing sub-6:00 by a training regimen that focusses primarily on doing specific training pieces with pace-based targets, I will be convinced. <br /><br />I will certainly be around, still rowing, in 10 years. So if you want to convince me, I will be happy to be convinced.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

The claim that the most accomplished rowing by 55-year-olds is achieved primarily by nut-crunching, pace-based rowing aiming at specific 2K indicators is wildly misguided.<br /><br />I _do_ think that this is 1% of it, though.<br /><br /> <br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Indeed Mark. I'm trying to figure out which category we're talking about here, I can't quite fit the number of my "Geniuine Erg Tests" onto both hands, but I don't need both feet. Everything else has been specific pace based training as an indicator, many of those pieces were not exactly a walk in the park, though they were nothing like an "Erg Test" (Time Trial). It works pretty much for everyone. It's not the only way by any means, and I think Ranger gets caught up in his own thoughts regarding that, neither of our methods are new, each is tried and true.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Wow. This statement rivals that ranger-guy for obscurity, internal contradiction, qualification, bold assertion, digression, irrelevant personal reminiscence, anecdote, figurative speech, indirection, non-sequitur, vagueness, alllusion, etc.<br /><br /> <br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Paul--<br /><br />Come on out to the races! A nice rivalry, I think, would be you and Dwayne, two rowing greats, now a bit older, battling it out, head to head!<br /><br />You could demonstrate the overall balance and effectiveness of your training ideas for older rowers, the _real_ results, not just chatter here on the web.<br /><br />We could talk a bit after the race about what weaknesses we are working on!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Hey, Nav--<br /><br />Are you turning out for Paul Flack's Boston marathon rowing marathon? Come on up for the festivities! The task for me is a marathon 1:48 @ 22 spm, 12.5 SPI. <br /><br />This would be a chance for you to display your endurance with that massive stroke of yours. Let's see, given our PATT scores are about 8 seconds/500 apart, you could hold 1:40 @ 22 spm (15.9 SPI) while I was holding 1:48, and we could gut it out together.<br /><br />Sounds like a good time! You should consider it! <br /><br />Some HMs at 1:40 @ 22 spm, a couple of day or so, might be good preparation.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] NavigationHazard]

I have never done a FM on an erg, concede that some people actually like the things, and utterly fail to see the point of doing one just to do it. You are never going to convince me that developing the ability to do marathons is a necessary part of training to row 1k OTW (Masters' national distance) or 2k on the erg.<br /><br />As for my weaknesses,<br /><br />#1. I can't help responding to John Rupp.<br /><br />#2 is in a similar vein. See if you can guess the person involved.<br /><br />#3. I don't hang sweaty t-shirts up to dry them before tossing them in the hamper.<br /><br />#4. I dislike putting the dishes I've just washed back in the cupboard.<br /><br />#5. I should see my mother-in-law more often than I do.<br /><br />As for your specious 'fitness tests,' as a legacy of the pounding I took running track and cross country as a lad, and mainly from basketball injuries, my ankles have more excess calcium in them than a Wisconsin dairy farm. I have bone chips embedded in half the tendons in my feet. I have adhesions in one of my calves the size of pencil erasers, from ripping the Achilles tendon away from the muscle. One of the tendons in my other foot used to belong to a cow. If I mangle either ankle again the doctors will have to fuse them so that I have a chance of walking again. Could I run 15 miles any more at a good clip w/o distress? Not going to. Could I once? Sure, did so before breakfast. The same problem applies to skipping rope, or for any weight-bearing exercise involving repeated shock to the feet and legs, like cheerleader toe-touching.<br /><br />Can I swim a mile? I dunno. I manage just fine when I flip my single.<br /><br />Can I bike 100m? Yes.<br /><br />Can I do extension pressups, or hanging v-sits, or do any of the other things you list? I have no idea and I don't intend to waste my time finding out. The last I looked, succesful rowing didn't involve hanging from a bar. Hanging out with your club mates at the bar is another matter.

[[old] ranger]

A minute on, a minute off, 1:32 @ 36 spm seems fine now. These are just challenging enough at the ends to get more and more facilitation to the task, but I still recover quickly and don't seem to have much residual tiredness at all for the next interval. In fact, I might be able to do these indefinitely. <br /><br />I think that this a minute on, a minute off, 1:32 @ 36 spm will be the regimen, at least once a day, this coming week. Then I can use 1:34 as a 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) target. <br /><br />Then the following week, I can push the a minute on, a minute off, regime to 1:30 @ 40 spm and the 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) to 1:32; or at least start off with these and build gradually to the appropriate number of repeats as I get used to them.<br /><br />1:46-1:48 @ 21-22 spm keeps feeling better and better for just long distance cruising. It feels as though this might be turning into a new UT2 pace.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have no idea and I don't intend to waste my time finding out. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Answer understood. Clear as a bell.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You are never going to convince me that developing the ability to do marathons is a necessary part of training to row 2k on the erg. </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. It's not. Given that erging is not even weight-bearing, almost anyone can row 2K on the erg, a 4-year-old or my 90-year-old mother. Actually, you don't need to train at all. You can just slide up and down the rail.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

BTW, if we term Nav's little 30 second burst widgits, then a minute on, a minute off, are double-widgits, and 500s are triple-widgits.<br /><br />I like that.<br /><br />A nice sharpening strategy, I think, is to practice these simultaneously, tiered by 2 seconds/500m in pace. <br /><br />Widgits at 1:30, double-widgits at 1:32, triple-widgits at 1:34!<br /><br />Nice!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 28 2006, 05:40 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 28 2006, 05:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A minute on, a minute off, 1:32 @ 36 spm seems fine now. These are just challenging enough at the ends to get more and more facilitation to the task, but I still recover quickly and don't seem to have much residual tiredness at all for the next interval. In fact, <b>I might be able to do these indefinitely. </b><br /><br />I think that this a minute on, a minute off, 1:32 @ 36 spm will be the regimen, at least once a day, this coming week. Then I can use 1:34 as a 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) target. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Depends on what "is" is. or on this case, the definition of "indefinitely." If "indefinitely" = 2, maybe. If "indefinitely" >64, never. <br /><br />What "little 30-second bursts" are you talking about? I may perhaps have done one or two 30/30 workouts in my life but I'd hardly associate them with me.<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 28 2006, 12:21 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 28 2006, 12:21 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Indeed Mark. I'm trying to figure out which category we're talking about here, I can't quite fit the number of my "Geniuine Erg Tests" onto both hands, but I don't need both feet. Everything else has been specific pace based training as an indicator, many of those pieces were not exactly a walk in the park, though they were nothing like an "Erg Test" (Time Trial). It works pretty much for everyone. It's not the only way by any means, and I think Ranger gets caught up in his own thoughts regarding that, neither of our methods are new, each is tried and true.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Wow. This statement rivals that ranger-guy for obscurity, internal contradiction, qualification, bold assertion, digression, irrelevant personal reminiscence, anecdote, figurative speech, indirection, non-sequitur, vagueness, alllusion, etc.<br /><br /> <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hey, we learn from eachother what we can. <br /><br />Anyway, my specifics have been hashed out pretty completely and I didn't see any reason to do that again. The basic point was that "erg tests" were not something done "for fun", we did them pretty much only when there was no way to not do them, though they did have the race flavor since we didn't get to pick the time for performance any more than for a scheduled Indoor Race these days. The coach said "Erg test days are this Thursday and Friday, sign up for your time slot." Frankly, at the time, the Erg wasn't seen as anywhere near the training tool it is today, that I put it to use 5 days a week was generally derided by the "old school" senior oarsmen, but being a stubborn rookie with "in your face" goals, I stuck with my methods, just as you stick with yours. I trained more like your "more is better" sessions all through highschool, so your statements about "my vast life experience says this is what is needed for a 55yr old" fall pretty flat when it's the approach a 16yr old figgered out, though looking back it did serve a pretty good purpose, just not the purpose that was specifically intended. Just as golf, tennis, cycling, racquetball and fencing all contributed something to the overall ability to use the body efficiently and effectively. Come to think of it, wouldn't it be great if a rowing coach could first insist that his charges learn to fence? <br /><br />I really don't see all the qualities you assert in my short quote above, but you did confirm the final one, that it is you who is twisting things I say into having meanings far beyond that which was intended. I simply say things as intended, very little need for complex interpretation. Didn't someone once say, "Make it as simple as it possibly can be, but no simpler."?