Ranger - News To Shock

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2006, 6:03 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 27 2006, 04:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What time will you be happy with for your first outing? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I am just going to row the 2K Sunday as an AT row. I don't really care what the time is. I will try to row about 30 spm. That should be 1:39 pace or so. I'll hold that until 1500m. If I feel good then, I'll kick. <br /><br />Really, I don't have any idea how the race will turn out. It's just a training row. All kinds of things could happen. I was injured last week and couldn't even row at all! So it goes. I am just happy I am back rowing and feeling well again. <br /><br />I think the last week of training went very well. That's good enough for now.<br /><br />Everything is in place for a _great_ bout of sharpening. My training foundation is _mountainous_!<br /><br />ranger

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 27th, 2006, 6:04 pm

Was that an answer to the question YOU quoted?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2006, 6:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Jim Barry @ Jan 27 2006, 04:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Rich, <br /><br />Last year you bailed on Toronto in late January because you feared you would not make weight and that's a heck of drive to find that out. Feeling good about the weight? (can't imagine you'd actually tell us your weight). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, it's always hard to make weight for the first race. If I don't make weight, I'll just row as a heavyweight. I won't just come home and not row. It doesn't really matter whether I make weight, either, except perhaps for the possibility of nipping Dennis' lwt record. But I will have quite a few shots at that over the next month or so. No hurry there, either.<br /><br />ranger

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 27th, 2006, 6:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2006, 01:57 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Was that an answer to the question quoted? </td></tr></table><br /><br />I am not going to show up at WIRC saying that I am going to row 6:24 unless I have rowed 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) at 1:32, etc. Why would I do that? You are right. That would be silly. But if someone rows 8 x 500m (3:30 rest) at 1:32 (and has many other parallel indicators), it is not at all silly to expect them to row 6:24, or so it seems to me.<br /><br />What if someone rows 4 x 2K at 1:38. Are you saying that you wouldn't expect them to row something close to 6:16?<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You have gone off on all kinds of tangents, though that is to be expected.<br /><br />I can't even begin to guess why you say some of the things you do, but thank you, I know I'm right. So far, you have not reported any indicator pieces, at least to any degree of accuracy, you may have done them, but that's different from reporting them in a meaningful way.<br /><br />I've never really related a 4 x 2k pace as a predictor of a single 2k, what rest period did you have in mind? If it were 10-12 minutes, I'd be expecting better than a 6:16 out of them, likely better than 6:12. Why, Are you _someone_ who has done that?

[old] Chad Williams · Post by **[old] Chad Williams** » January 27th, 2006, 6:22 pm

Ranger<br /><br />Have you tried 2x1000m with 0 rest, that is a good predictor for a 2000m <br /><br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2006, 7:12 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 27 2006, 05:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger<br /><br />Have you tried 2x1000m with 0 rest, that is a good predictor for a 2000m <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sure, it's a good predictor, when you are fully prepared. But then, why not just race? Other things predict how you will do pretty well, and then the race fills in the details.<br /><br />Sure, I've race a lot. I have three world record rows. I have won all of the major championships and still hold two of the championship records. I have even won a silver at WIRC in the heavyweight division rowing as a lightweight!<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2006, 7:14 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>So far, you have not reported any indicator pieces </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. I have just started sharpening. What is there to predict? Indicator pieces are meaningless at this point. I am training, not "indicating."<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 27th, 2006, 7:24 pm

I suppose the only time I'll want to be "indicating" is about Feb. 20th or so. That's 24 training days away. I'll certainly be "indicating" some things then. Only makes sense. You should know what pace to row the first 1K of the race. It helps if you want to get flat splits.<br /><br />I suppose the general arc of times that I pull in the next three races might "indicate" something, too. In 2003, I pulled 6:40, 6:36, 6:33.5, and then 6:30 in successive weeks leading up to and including WIRC, a 10 second improvement! <br /><br />You can't test the effectiveness of your foundational work until you use it to sharpen with. You can only test the effect of your sharpening.<br /><br />ranger

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » January 27th, 2006, 7:26 pm

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 27th, 2006, 8:17 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2006, 03:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>So far, you have not reported any indicator pieces </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. I have just started sharpening. What is there to predict? Indicator pieces are meaningless at this point. I am training, not "indicating."<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So, what was the point of you asking about a 4 x 2k @ 1:38, just more sidetracking?<br /><br />The indicator pieces are simply just good workouts, not races. The more important thing that they indicate is not that you CAN do something you think you can, but that it's more than likely you CAN NOT, and require more training.<br /><br />For instance, if I was expecting to do a 6:00, I'd be inclined to try 8 x 1:30 x 2 min rest @ 1:30 S10PS R33, adn if I did not complete it on target the plan would be rolled back to reflect the average pace achieved during the intervals. The intervals would not have been nearly as painful as a 2k test due to the "breaks".

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » January 27th, 2006, 8:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 27 2006, 08:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2006, 03:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>So far, you have not reported any indicator pieces </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. I have just started sharpening. What is there to predict? Indicator pieces are meaningless at this point. I am training, not "indicating."<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So, what was the point of you asking about a 4 x 2k @ 1:38, just more sidetracking?<br /><br />The indicator pieces are simply just good workouts, not races. The more important thing that they indicate is not that you CAN do something you think you can, but that it's more than likely you CAN NOT, and require more training.<br /><br />For instance, if I was expecting to do a 6:00, I'd be inclined to try 8 x 1:30 x 2 min rest @ 1:30 S10PS R33, adn if I did not complete it on target the plan would be rolled back to reflect the average pace achieved during the intervals. The intervals would not have been nearly as painful as a 2k test due to the "breaks". <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Paul:<br /><br />Maybe you're being a bit too much of a nut buster here ...<br /><br />Some people need to test and test to feel confident they can perform.<br /><br />Others have tremendous self confidence in their training regime, knowing from past performance(s), and can pretty much perform as they say they can "on demand".<br /><br />How about lightening up on Rich, wish him well, and let's see what happens on Sunday?<br /><br />-- Mark

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » January 27th, 2006, 8:52 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Jan 27 2006, 04:33 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Paul:<br /><br />Maybe you're being a bit too much of a nut buster here ...<br /><br />Some people need to test and test to feel confident they can perform.<br /><br />Others have tremendous self confidence in their training regime, knowing from past performance(s), and can pretty much perform as they say they can "on demand".<br /><br />How about lightening up on Rich, wish him well, and let's see what happens on Sunday?<br /><br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Indeed Mark. I'm trying to figure out which category we're talking about here, I can't quite fit the number of my "Geniuine Erg Tests" onto both hands, but I don't need both feet. Everything else has been specific pace based training as an indicator, many of those pieces were not exactly a walk in the park, though they were nothing like an "Erg Test" (Time Trial). It works pretty much for everyone. It's not the only way by any means, and I think Ranger gets caught up in his own thoughts regarding that, neither of our methods are new, each is tried and true.<br /><br />Ranger didn't get here without a certain amount of "nut-busting", this is my way of wishing him well, though I'm happy to put it in more conventional terms also.<br /><br />All the best for a not too "nut-busting" first race (in a long time) "Hat Man"! <br /><br />

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » January 27th, 2006, 9:09 pm

Rich just to clarify something I cant make sense of (tho obviously it make sense to you)<br /><br />You are going to drive 5 hours each way just to do a 2k training piece (as you are not racing it) at what you think is your AT - you are not even worried about making weight. Seems strange when you dont believe in 'racing' training sessions as they interrupt your schedule? What do you hope to gain by this interruption to your training?<br /><br />As to making weight - you have said repeatedly that making weight is not an issue / difficulty (till now), so I am guessing given your comments you are not at 165 yet, even tho you are training 5 hours a day. How then do you think you will get down to weight if your not there now?<br /><br />I guess this means that you are definitely not a natural LW, but choose to race as such for other reasons.<br /><br />tks George

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » January 28th, 2006, 12:17 am

Its interesting to look back thru this thread at how 'possibilities' dont always transform into realities:<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Nov 27 2005, 03:59 AM<br />A 6:26 is a _very_ nice row for a 50s lwt, but I think I might row 6:24 well before February. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Nov 27 2005, 07:41 AM<br />I have never failed a weigh-in. I have raced as a lightweight about ten times now. ..... At the CRASH-Bs in 2003, when I broke the WR, I weighed in at 161 lbs. This shows that I am not at all on the very margin of making weight. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Dec 7 2005, 09:21 AM<br />If things go well, this month, I will be trying to work through the Zatopek 500s (i.e., 40 x 500m, 500m paddle in between) at about 1:38-1:40 @ 28-30 spm. I will try the Zatopek 250s (80 x 250m, 250 paddle in between) at 1:36 @ 32 spm.<br /><br />That should be some good quick work. </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Dec 7 2005, 10:45 AM<br />I suppose you can never know these things for sure, but given the way my training is going, I think I will also have the 55-59 lwt WR by the end of January 2006. In fact, before WIRC, my goal is to do 4 x 2K at 1:40 </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Dec 9 2005, 11:29 AM<br />I find a nice 30K on the erg, 1:52 @ 18 spm, followed by 2 hours of stepping at 300 watts, much more interesting and satisfying!<br /><br />Dec 10 2005, 03:48 AM<br />Nice 80-minute stepping routine this morning, pretty consistently above 300 watts, after my usual 20K slog at 1:52 @ 18 spm on the erg.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Dec 10 2005, 05:25 AM<br />165 lbs. is just a nice lean weight for me. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just reading back to early Dec and Rangers comments I am sure he will blow the record away this weekend, hard to see how he could not, and the talk about making weight is just that 'talk', he has all the bases covered. Strength, endurance, pace weight - he could probably break the record at about 26/28 spm given he can do 1:52 @ 18 for nearly 2 hours.<br /><br />My money is now on Ranger to out perform all his predictions<br /><br />Go get em<br /><br />George<br /><br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » January 28th, 2006, 3:03 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 27 2006, 02:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You might take this to heart, Nav. You are one of these big men, too. What will the next fiive years bring your way, if you don't do something to prevent it?<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nav--<br /><br />Of course, this is just my opinion. But I think the only way that folks our age who are rowing at the highest levels, as you now are, can have their times plateau and then still get better at rowing even though they are getting older is to establish an ambitious overall fitness program, one that has no direct relation to rowing, with _very_ high standards, performed relgiously every day, of considerable duration (3-4 hours), involving the entire body. The fitness regimen then can be constant check on overall readiness to engage in this demanding sport at the highest levels.<br /><br />I have enjoyed this regimen, which I have kept pretty closely for three years or so now: skipping rope or running for an hour, doing an hour of sit ups (mixed with leg tucks and jackknives), stepping/biking (pretty hard) for two hours.<br /><br />The kind of fitness that a regimen such as this maintains can be checked pretty easily with various tasks. Can you go out and run 10-15 miles at a good clip with little distress? Can swim a mile with no problem? Can you do 20-30 pull ups, 20-30 extension press ups, 50 or so jackknives? Can you jump rope double time for 10-15 minutes? Can you jump rope single time for an hour with no problem? Can you jump up 10-15 times in a row, touching your toes, like a cheerleader? Can you do a V-sit, hanging on a bar, or a minute or so? Can you bike 100 miles at a good clip with no problem? Can you do 75 push ups? <br /><br />It seems to me that the first requirement of a top notch rower, at least at our age, is that they just be an exceptional overall athlete. That is, they have to be a combination runner, swimmer, gymnast, cross-country skier, biker, etc.<br /><br />I suppose theree is one other requirement, too. I think a top notch rower at our age has to be willing to work very hard on their weaknesses. <br /><br />What do you think your major weaknesses are, Nav, and how are you working on them? Could you list five or six of them for us? I would also be interested in hearing about how you perform on the various fitness tasks I have listed above.<br /><br />ranger<br />

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