Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] Roland Baltutis]

As it appears that I'm not the only one that has had success on the erg using different technique to what I use in the boat. It is interesting to see what is going to happen with Ranger with his new rowing stroke.<br /><br />If Ranger has had great success in the past on the erg using a technique that wouldn't work in a boat. Will he go backwards in his first race since changing his technique to that used in a boat? I know that my times are slower when I use on water technique on the erg. I firmly believe that moving a flywheel is different enough from moving a boat that they both require their own techniques.<br /><br />Ranger is taking a gamble with his rowing stroke. It's taken a while for him to make that change and he may have made better progress sticking to his original record breaking technique.<br /><br />Rockin Roland<br />

[[old] hjs]

from the uk forum.<br /><br />BTW, there _is_ a major difference between stepping at 300 watts and rowing 1:47 @ 28 spm for 1-2 hours, perhaps because the rowing, being full body exercise, distributes the effort throughout the body, I barely warm up and sweat during the frothy rowing; in fact I almost get cold! However, perhaps because it concentrates the effort in the big muscles in the legs and gluts, rather than distributes it throughout the body, stepping at 300 watts heats you up like a tea kettle. As when rowing hard, you gush sweat after a while. This is why stepping is so useful for weight loss, I think. It gets your core body temperature way up; and, if you can stretch out the session for as long as two hours, you really cook! Of course, you do the same if you row hard for 1-2 hours, but that is another story! <br /><br />I used to do a lot of marathon-length rowing with a light frothy stroke back when I was a beginning ergers and a fatty heavyweight, but this rowing didn't have as much effect on weight loss. I rowed and rowed, but I remained a fatty heavyweight. I didn't lose the fat until I got on a stepper and exerted comparable effort over comparable spans of time. <br /><br />Ranger.<br /><br /><br />Why can you step at a higher watt avarage compared to erging? This is very simple and totally not what you are saying!<br />Stepping: a continuing movement, you step al the time, one leg finishes and the other one takes over. A very fluend movement with no high peak power needed. And on top of that you are standing and carrying your own weight. Another point, you can lean a bit on your arms and thus push with you triceps. <br /><br />Rowing : your sitting so not carrying your own weight, you drive and recover, so not a fluend movement but a on and off peak movement. This is always less efficient than a continuing movement. You not helping with your triceps. But the finish does allow you to let the biceps do some work. But the triceps are twice as strong so they can do more work. <br /><br />As a hole the main thing is a sitting peakmovement compared to a standing continuing movement. <br /><br />For me a 300 watt workout on the stepper I can do quit easy for an hour without training this at all. rowing at 300 watts /1.45 for an hour I can't. Thing a bit ranger before you type something down <br /><br />The thing about weightloss. boy o boy this is so not true I don,t even start tellling you how it really works. You abviously don't have a clou. (which I hardly can't believe, so you are just talking without using a bit of comen sence)<br /><br /><br />

[[old] hjs]

Yikes! It's hard to switch back and forth between these units on the PM3, but, if I am getting it right, it appears that the calorie counter says I am burning 1250 cal/hour when I am just frothing along easily at 1:47 @ 28 spm. Paul Smith and I had a discussion about rowing vs. stepping on the US forum and while I claimed that stepping (at 300 watts) was pretty much like rowing (at 300 watts) in level of effort, Paul thought this was nonsense. Well, I can't really step at 1250 calories per hour at all. I step at 1150 or so. That's 300 watts. 300 watts on the erg is about 1:45 pace and who knows how many calories per hour, 1350? <br /><br />Something is strange here<br /><br />Ranger.<br /><br /><br />stepping is much easier and even technically even simpeler hahahaha

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For me a 300 watt workout on the stepper I can do quit easy for an hour without training this at all. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Impressive, if true. I wonder if this is the experience of others. <br /><br />Have you tried extending that hour of stepping at 300 watts to two hours?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger is taking a gamble with his rowing stroke. It's taken a while for him to make that change and he may have made better progress sticking to his original record breaking technique. </td></tr></table><br /><br />True, that what I have done is a gamble. Not true that I could have made progress with my other stroke. I think the primary problem with my old stroke was the drag. For it to be effective, I had to row on max drag (200+ df.). For a 55-year-old lwt, I am just not sure that that can be very efficient. What drag do you row on with your "erg" stroke, Roland?<br /> <br />Are you implying that, rowing with standard technique, my efforts won't be similarly record breaking? Odd claim. The 55-59 lwt WR is about 6:41. I will be 55 in a couple of weeks.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 15 2006, 12:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 15 2006, 12:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yikes! It's hard to switch back and forth between these units on the PM3, but, if I am getting it right, it appears that the calorie counter says I am burning 1250 cal/hour when I am just frothing along easily at 1:47 @ 28 spm. Paul Smith and I had a discussion about rowing vs. stepping on the US forum and while I claimed that stepping (at 300 watts) was pretty much like rowing (at 300 watts) in level of effort, Paul thought this was nonsense. Well, I can't really step at 1250 calories per hour at all. I step at 1150 or so. That's 300 watts. 300 watts on the erg is about 1:45 pace and who knows how many calories per hour, 1350? <br /><br />Something is strange here<br /><br />Ranger.<br /><br /><br />stepping is much easier and even technically even simpeler  hahahaha <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Ranger If I say I am can do something I mean I can. <br />I don,t do more at the moment because I can't. My body just won't alow it. If I can erg 40/50 k p week I have be happy. <br />

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE<br />For me a 300 watt workout on the stepper I can do quit easy for an hour without training this at all.<br /><br /><br />Impressive, if true. I wonder if this is the experience of others. </td></tr></table><br /><br />The calibrations on steppers and ellipticals are often inaccurate and comparing two identical machines set at the same levels can produce different resistances.<br />I'd like to hear from anyone that can keep a Cybex Arc Total body trainer at 300 watts for 60'. <br /><br />GW

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger If I say I am can do something I mean I can. </td></tr></table><br /><br />What kind of stepper do you use? What weight do you enter? What program do you use as settings?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 15 2006, 04:01 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 15 2006, 04:01 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not true that I could have made progress with my other stroke. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why not.<br /><br />From 2002 to 2003 you had improved from being a heavyweight to matching that time as a lightweight.<br /><br />The difference between the open heavy and lightweight records is more than 25 seconds.<br /><br />Thus you effectively improved more than 25 seconds in that year with your old stroke, before you changed it and haven't improved your time since 2003.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 15 2006, 03:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 15 2006, 03:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 15 2006, 04:01 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 15 2006, 04:01 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not true that I could have made progress with my other stroke. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why not.<br /><br />From 2002 to 2003 you had improved from being a heavyweight to matching that time as a lightweight.<br /><br />The difference between the open heavy and lightweight records is more than 25 seconds.<br /><br />Thus you effectively improved more than 25 seconds in that year with your old stroke, before you changed it and haven't improved your time since 2003. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I improved my competitive position vis-a-vis those I race against, but I didn't improve my fitness or rowing much at all. I just lost some fat. 165 lbs. is just a normal lean weight for me. I have the same muscle mass, fitness, energy level, etc., at 165 lbs. that I had when I was 195 lbs. I am just leaner.<br /><br />Since 2003, I have improved my sport-specific strength (mainly legs, but certain parts of my back as well) through my "rowing with breaks" routine, and my technique, by intense study and practice, the latter, enormously.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 15 2006, 07:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 15 2006, 07:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger If I say I am can do something I mean I can. </td></tr></table><br /><br />What kind of stepper do you use? What weight do you enter? What program do you use as settings?<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I have to come back on this one. I enter my bodyweight. Use a climbingsetting, keep a steady high speed. resistance at about 80% of max. I don't which machine by hard. I do now it's a common one and have used it of and one an bit for more than 10 years. <br />At the moment I am training on a differant location. The steppers I can use there are crap. Hightech blingbling machines but not sueted to train proper .<br />

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jan 15 2006, 09:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Jan 15 2006, 09:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 15 2006, 04:01 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 15 2006, 04:01 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not true that I could have made progress with my other stroke. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Why not.<br /><br />From 2002 to 2003 you had improved from being a heavyweight to matching that time as a lightweight.<br /><br />The difference between the open heavy and lightweight records is more than 25 seconds.<br /><br />Thus you effectively improved more than 25 seconds in that year with your old stroke, before you changed it and haven't improved your time since 2003. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><br />Hmm jr logic. Someone loses bodyfat and he calls that Improvement. hahaha<br />Improvement on the erg is being able to pull more watts not. Becoming lighter or older is not

[[old] H_2O]

It depends very much on the make of the stepper how 300 Watts will feel.<br /><br />In my present gym they have "LifeCycle" steppers. These are quite good offering good resistance (more than I want to handle) and it's only slightly easier to get the power output than on the rower.<br />I certainly would not want to do 300 Watts for one hour on one of these.<br /><br />On the other hand I have been on steppers where I was able to do 300 Watts for one hour and it was comparable to 230 Watts on the rowing machine.<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-H_2O+Jan 16 2006, 07:43 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jan 16 2006, 07:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It depends very much on the make of the stepper how 300 Watts will feel.<br /><br />In my present gym they have "LifeCycle" steppers. These are quite good offering good resistance (more than I want to handle) and it's only slightly easier to get the power output than on the rower.<br />I certainly would not want to do 300 Watts for one hour on one of these.<br /><br />On the other hand I have been on steppers where I was able to do 300 Watts for one hour and it was comparable to 230 Watts on the rowing machine. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />True. My interest in the stepper, really, is more relative than absolute; and I am intrigued by these relative results. I have always used the same stepper and the same setting (a LifeFitness stepper, manual climbing routine, level 15). Three to four years ago, I stepped at 250 watts on that stepper using this routine. I now step the same distances at the same effort on the same machine using the same routine at over 300 watts. This change of 50 watts is about 7 seconds per 500 on the erg. And sure enough, four years ago, rowing an hour at 1:52 would have been a very hard for me, perhaps even close to max. Now I can do 1:52 for an hour at 18 spm rowing at 14 SPI at a high UT2, low UT1 heart rate, and if I froth it up for an hour at a high rate (28 spm) and a light stroke (10 SPI), as I used to do when I rowed the 1:52s for an hour four years ago, I think I will do 1:45 for an hour now, exactly seven seconds per 500 faster. <br /><br />So there seems to be a pretty close parallel here, regardless of absolutes, calibrations, different equipment, etc. That is, there is a suggestion that, done in a proper context, regularly, on the same machine, in tandem with rowing, performances on a stepper can be an indicator of parallel performances on the erg. <br /><br />Of course, my experience with this machine might be unique, but what is also evident is that, here, my results are not just relative, either, but absolute. That is, 1:52 on the erg is just around 250 watts and 1:45 on the e rg is just around 300 watts. That is, when I get on the LifeFitness stepper I like to use and do the manual climbing routine at setting 15, I do just about exactly the watts that I would do if I were rowing, and vice versa.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] FrancoisA]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 16 2006, 04:11 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 16 2006, 04:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->... if I froth it up for an hour at a high rate (28 spm) and a light stroke (10 SPI), as I used to do when I rowed the 1:52s for an hour four years ago, I think I will do 1:45 for an hour now, exactly seven seconds per 500 faster. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Go for it Ranger! It would be a WR in the 50-59 lightweight age group! <br />60 min at 1:45 is 17,143 m; current WR by Rod Freed is 17,132 m.<br />And more glory to you, since you would, at 55, establish a WR in a 50-59 age division! <br /><br />Cheers!<br /><br />Francois