Lactate Threshold Power Duration

[hjs]

Those are good points, although there's a lot of similarities between rowing and cycling, the biggest difference is the standard racing distance. The 2k rowing test has nothing really close to this comparable in cycling (except maybe track / velodrome style cycling). The standard distance in cycling seems to be approx 160km-180km.

I'll guess that the power drop seen in these elite rowers is due to having higher 'fast twitch' muscle fibres, as rowing seems to be a fair balance of slow and fast twitch fibres (which leads to having a higher power drop over time). Cycling, although does recruit fast twitch fibres throughout the race at different points, utilizes much, much less (therefore power drop over time would be fairly insignificant).

Would be interesting to see the power drop of rowers who train for marathon distances or longer

Why do you think that? Rowers certainly are slow fiber dominant. Its much more rowers seldom do full on tt for 60Min. And most longer rows are at lower rates. The top lightweight Danes pull 18k on the hour.

[Trev]

Those are good points, although there's a lot of similarities between rowing and cycling, the biggest difference is the standard racing distance. The 2k rowing test has nothing really close to this comparable in cycling (except maybe track / velodrome style cycling). The standard distance in cycling seems to be approx 160km-180km.

I'll guess that the power drop seen in these elite rowers is due to having higher 'fast twitch' muscle fibres, as rowing seems to be a fair balance of slow and fast twitch fibres (which leads to having a higher power drop over time). Cycling, although does recruit fast twitch fibres throughout the race at different points, utilizes much, much less (therefore power drop over time would be fairly insignificant).

Would be interesting to see the power drop of rowers who train for marathon distances or longer

My power duration profile does not compare with elite rowers.

My 60 second power tested at av 300 watts. My 60 minute power was 108 watts. 5000m av power was 126 watts.

Compared to an elite rowers profile,



10 second all out average power wattage was 173% of the 2k average power wattage.
60 seconds all out was 153% of the 2k average power wattage.
6k power was 85% of 2k average power wattage.
60 minute ‘hour of power’ average power wattage was 76% of 2k average power wattage.

Based on this an elite rowers 60 minute power would be 49.6% of 60 second power.

My 60 minute power is only 36% of my 60 second power.

If anything the 300 watt test is down on what I'm capable of as I wasn't full on, it was the 2nd effort, the first effort I started out way too down on power and only averages 155 watts, so I did another effort 5 minutes later.

The 60 minute test really was at the max of my capabilities.

I also did a 5000m test and averaged 126 watts.

All my tests were done after a rest day.

Why is my 60 minute power so poor compared to my 60 second power?

[hjs]

Why is my 60 minute power so poor compared to my 60 second power?

60 seconds, fitness plays not such a big role, base strenght does.

60 min, aerobic fitness is most important. Answer, you are not very fit. And not just relative but also absolute. Don,t know your stats, but even the 60 second test is not outstanding.

[Trev]

Why is my 60 minute power so poor compared to my 60 second power?

60 seconds, fitness plays not such a big role, base strenght does.

60 min, aerobic fitness is most important. Answer, you are not very fit. And not just relative but also absolute. Don,t know your stats, but even the 60 second test is not outstanding.

I know I'm not fit.

I'm 57, 5'7" and 14st 5lbs.

Age 41 I did 2000m in 7min 17 sec av 269 watts and 5000m in 19min 19 sec av 225 watts as a Lightweight.

I know the 60 second test isn't outstanding, I know it's crap and I'm embarrassed by how crap it is but the 60 min power is even more crap.

[hjs]

I know I'm not fit.

I'm 57, 5'7" and 14st 5lbs.

Age 41 I did 2000m in 7min 17 sec av 269 watts and 5000m in 19min 19 sec av 225 watts as a Lightweight.

I know the 60 second test isn't outstanding, I know it's crap and I'm embarrassed by how crap it is but the 60 min power is even more crap.

Come on, you are over complicating things. I agree your hour is relative not strong, but your 2k is pretty ok. Don,t forget height and thus frame playes a big role in rowing, most top lightweights are still pretty tall 6.1/6.4.
Instead of comparing rowing with cycling you can better look how you can improve, so look how rowers train. Meters at low rate is bread and butter.
Re your 60 second test. Your 2k is roughly 1.49, your 5 1.56, pretty normal difference, your 60 seconds is again really poor, only 1.45 compared to your 1.49 is very out of line, certainly given the fact endurance is also relative poor.

An average erger is on the 500 meter, often 11/14 seconds faster than on the av for the 2k. 1 min is again faster. For your 1.35 seems not strange. Why you only pull 1.45 is beyond me. How do rate? There must be something wrong. With your 1.49 2k your 60 seconds can simply not be only 1.45. Impossible.

If you use this http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... predictor/

And use your 2 and 5 k you get a rough idea. Both your 60 min and 60 seconds are way off. Can,t be right, if you simply look at the 2 and 5

[danielcccook]

Those are good points, although there's a lot of similarities between rowing and cycling, the biggest difference is the standard racing distance. The 2k rowing test has nothing really close to this comparable in cycling (except maybe track / velodrome style cycling). The standard distance in cycling seems to be approx 160km-180km.

I'll guess that the power drop seen in these elite rowers is due to having higher 'fast twitch' muscle fibres, as rowing seems to be a fair balance of slow and fast twitch fibres (which leads to having a higher power drop over time). Cycling, although does recruit fast twitch fibres throughout the race at different points, utilizes much, much less (therefore power drop over time would be fairly insignificant).

Would be interesting to see the power drop of rowers who train for marathon distances or longer

Why do you think that? Rowers certainly are slow fiber dominant. Its much more rowers seldom do full on tt for 60Min. And most longer rows are at lower rates. The top lightweight Danes pull 18k on the hour.

Yeah thats what I mean, elite marathon runners frequently do 3+hr runs with power intervals in excess of half an hour. This doesnt really translate well to rowers who focus on 2000m race distances. Yeah they are slow fibre dominant, but not nearly to the same degree as a marathon runner. I cant remember who it was, but one of the 'ultra marathon' runners (50k+ runners) had a lactate threshold that was over 95% of his VO2 max, so he essentially could run his hardest for as long as he wanted, as long as he had carbohydrate intake.

[hjs]

Those are good points, although there's a lot of similarities between rowing and cycling, the biggest difference is the standard racing distance. The 2k rowing test has nothing really close to this comparable in cycling (except maybe track / velodrome style cycling). The standard distance in cycling seems to be approx 160km-180km.

I'll guess that the power drop seen in these elite rowers is due to having higher 'fast twitch' muscle fibres, as rowing seems to be a fair balance of slow and fast twitch fibres (which leads to having a higher power drop over time). Cycling, although does recruit fast twitch fibres throughout the race at different points, utilizes much, much less (therefore power drop over time would be fairly insignificant).

Would be interesting to see the power drop of rowers who train for marathon distances or longer

Why do you think that? Rowers certainly are slow fiber dominant. Its much more rowers seldom do full on tt for 60Min. And most longer rows are at lower rates. The top lightweight Danes pull 18k on the hour.

Yeah thats what I mean, elite marathon runners frequently do 3+hr runs with power intervals in excess of half an hour. This doesnt really translate well to rowers who focus on 2000m race distances. Yeah they are slow fibre dominant, but not nearly to the same degree as a marathon runner. I cant remember who it was, but one of the 'ultra marathon' runners (50k+ runners) had a lactate threshold that was over 95% of his VO2 max, so he essentially could run his hardest for as long as he wanted, as long as he had carbohydrate intake.

Hmm , take haille Gebresalassy, has a strong fm, but also a pretty good 1500 as pb, he had a decent sprint, so he must have had some fast muscle fibers.
Female record holder Raddclife is a other, no sprint whatsover, she was slowtwitch fibers all over.

Toprowers make long days doing 250k a week is not uncommon. And rowing is limited to shorter work due to the nature of the sport. There are simply no long courses, so there are no real marathon rowers.

[Trev]

I know I'm not fit.

I'm 57, 5'7" and 14st 5lbs.

Age 41 I did 2000m in 7min 17 sec av 269 watts and 5000m in 19min 19 sec av 225 watts as a Lightweight.

I know the 60 second test isn't outstanding, I know it's crap and I'm embarrassed by how crap it is but the 60 min power is even more crap.

Come on, you are over complicating things. I agree your hour is relative not strong, but your 2k is pretty ok. Don,t forget height and thus frame playes a big role in rowing, most top lightweights are still pretty tall 6.1/6.4.
Instead of comparing rowing with cycling you can better look how you can improve, so look how rowers train. Meters at low rate is bread and butter.
Re your 60 second test. Your 2k is roughly 1.49, your 5 1.56, pretty normal difference, your 60 seconds is again really poor, only 1.45 compared to your 1.49 is very out of line, certainly given the fact endurance is also relative poor.

An average erger is on the 500 meter, often 11/14 seconds faster than on the av for the 2k. 1 min is again faster. For your 1.35 seems not strange. Why you only pull 1.45 is beyond me. How do rate? There must be something wrong. With your 1.49 2k your 60 seconds can simply not be only 1.45. Impossible.

If you use this http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... predictor/

And use your 2 and 5 k you get a rough idea. Both your 60 min and 60 seconds are way off. Can,t be right, if you simply look at the 2 and 5

Not with you, are you confusing my times age 41 with the recent ones? I have not done a 2k only 60 sec, 5k and 60 min recently. Age 41 I don't have a 60 sec or 60 min time, only 2k and 5k. So you can't compare my recent 60 sec time age 57 to my age 41 2k time. I'm 16 years older and 3st heavier and unfit.

Thanks for the link, will look at it.

[hjs]

Ah, I thought you talked about your current form, what you once did is ofcourse not relevant now. Put some recent results in that predictor yes.

[jackarabit]

Trev, I'm a decade older than you but we're the same height. A yr. ago I weighed in at 196lb (14 stone old money). May 6th I'll have erged for a year, got rid of the beachball between my legs, and maybe down a bit more from current 168. The Muscle Beach crowd may laugh when I say it but my advice is that you not dwell too long in self-inflicted public humiliation. Getting a grip on reality is the low water line. It can get better. I realize that you are most likely employed full time so "making time" for physical fitness may be a challenge. Face that challenge. Don't make this about absolute performance or lost potential. Few of us grab the brass ring. Reaching for it is the victory. Jack

[Bob S.]

Toprowers make long days doing 250k a week is not uncommon. And rowing is limited to shorter work due to the nature of the sport. There are simply no long courses, so there are no real marathon rowers.

You must be kidding, hjs. In California, we have the race to Catalina Island in SoCal and the race around the Farallon Islands in the San Francisco area. Both of those are in the range of the marathon distance. I have seen reports of races on the US east coast, but I don't know how long they are. I have no doubt but that there are some fairy long river races as well. As for super-marathons, there are plenty of very long, blue water races, like the one around Britain and several trans-oceanic races - all in vessels propelled by oars. Of course the multi-day races have to be done in special, expensive boats, but the California races that I mentioned are done in recreation shells that are not all that much different from regular racing shells - just a bit shorter and wider and equipped with drains and compasses. The Maas 24 is popular for both these races and is only a few pounds heavier than a racing shell.

Bob S.

[hjs]

Toprowers make long days doing 250k a week is not uncommon. And rowing is limited to shorter work due to the nature of the sport. There are simply no long courses, so there are no real marathon rowers.

You must be kidding, hjs. In California, we have the race to Catalina Island in SoCal and the race around the Farallon Islands in the San Francisco area. Both of those are in the range of the marathon distance. I have seen reports of races on the US east coast, but I don't know how long they are. I have no doubt but that there are some fairy long river races as well. As for super-marathons, there are plenty of very long, blue water races, like the one around Britain and several trans-oceanic races - all in vessels propelled by oars. Of course the multi-day races have to be done in special, expensive boats, but the California races that I mentioned are done in recreation shells that are not all that much different from regular racing shells - just a bit shorter and wider and equipped with drains and compasses. The Maas 24 is popular for both these races and is only a few pounds heavier than a racing shell.

Bob S.

There are some longer races, think oxfort cambrige. But for most its 2k, 2k and 2k nothing else. Wc are 2k, olympic is 2k. You can have some local stuff, but that is seen in the big picture worth nothing.
Compared with other sports, rowing is 2k and nothing else.

[Bob S.]

There are some longer races, think oxfort cambrige. But for most its 2k, 2k and 2k nothing else. Wc are 2k, olympic is 2k. You can have some local stuff, but that is seen in the big picture worth nothing.
Compared with other sports, rowing is 2k and nothing else.

I was talking about the really long races, i.e. 20 miles and up, but you mentioned oxford cambridge. That is 4.2 miles, so not in that category. But to dismiss that as just an anomaly is wrong as far as I am concerned. The whole Fall season for OTW racing is full of head races, generally around 5 miles or so. One that stands out is the Head of the Charles, which can hardly be considered just local stuff, with some clubs having to haul their boats all the way across the country. Head races on the US Pacific coast have competitors from all up and down the coast from San Diego to Vancouver, B.C. - not exactly local when it takes 2-3 days just to haul their shells to the event. I agree that there is essentially no real erg competition other than the 2k, but it is a different matter on the water.

Bob S.

[hjs]

There are some longer races, think oxfort cambrige. But for most its 2k, 2k and 2k nothing else. Wc are 2k, olympic is 2k. You can have some local stuff, but that is seen in the big picture worth nothing.
Compared with other sports, rowing is 2k and nothing else.

I was talking about the really long races, i.e. 20 miles and up, but you mentioned oxford cambridge. That is 4.2 miles, so not in that category. But to dismiss that as just an anomaly is wrong as far as I am concerned. The whole Fall season for OTW racing is full of head races, generally around 5 miles or so. One that stands out is the Head of the Charles, which can hardly be considered just local stuff, with some clubs having to haul their boats all the way across the country. Head races on the US Pacific coast have competitors from all up and down the coast from San Diego to Vancouver, B.C. - not exactly local when it takes 2-3 days just to haul their shells to the event. I agree that there is essentially no real erg competition other than the 2k, but it is a different matter on the water.

Bob S.

Yes Bob, but in the big picture its 2k, like cycling is about long races. And most other sports about various distances. Nice to win something like the head of the C, but compared to the olympics...
In erging we over here have other work, but again, only the 2 really counts.

[Trev]

Ah, I thought you talked about your current form, what you once did is ofcourse not relevant now. Put some recent results in that predictor yes.

I did 5000m yesterday, 23min 03sec / 132 watts. My best so far. Wasn't a full on test.

A few days ago I did a full on 60 minute test after a rest day and only managed 108 watts. This puts my 60 minute power way short of what any predictions says it should be.

This puts my Functional Threshold power (60 min power) at only 82% of my 5,000m (23 min power).