Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] ranger]

It is an exciting moment for a a rower, I think, when work on stroking power merges with work so that you can just do the two simultaneously. Don't know about this for sure, but I would guess that this is how most of the best international rowers, who most likely got to this point very early on, like to do their training.<br /><br />For instance, now, for shorter periods, 1:45 @ 20 spm doesn't feel bad for me at all. This means that, as an alternative to rowing long, 30K rows at 18 spm and 1:50, I can repeat, with little damage, say, 7:00 2Ks @ 20 spm. Rowing this way, then, I can work continuously on technique and stroking power while doing what amounts to pretty quality aerobic work, at least for me, a 55-year-old lightweight (1:45 is WR + 5 2K pace). If my efficiency is high, the low rate in this rowing might also make it so that I could repeat quite a few of these 2Ks: 5? 10? 15? This would be a pretty exciting thing to do and, I assume, would be much more beneficial than a standard Level 2 workout like 4 x 2K @ 1:40-1:42 and 30-36 spm.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Hmm.<br /><br />Something interesting seems to keep happening in this faster rowing that I am now doing in order to sharpen to race and it might be important enough to deserve mention.<br /><br />As I lighten up my stroke and try to conserve energy, as everyone tries to do in a 2K, I naturally lighten up on my heels. Perhaps because of the strength and speed of my back and (now) good timing and full use of my (now stronger) legs and (naurally strong) arms, I just don't need to jam on the footplate with my heels to get _way_ above race pace, when I up the rate to something like 36 spm, which I do very easily and which was my normal racing rate last time I raced (before I started working on my stroke). As I tried to explain repeatedly on this forum back in the early days of my rowing, this avoidance of a heel plant is just _much_ more economical. It uses what (back then) I called "peripheral levers" in the legs rather that the big muscles that fatigue so quickly and then dump out lactic acid all over you in the later portions of the race. It also cuts down on some of the complicated movement in the rowing stroke and therefore makes it much easier to achieve a high rate without a lot of effort. Having done it the other way now for a long time (i.e., with a strong heel plant very early in the stroke), you might say that rowing on your toes makes rowing feels somewhat more like a combination of paddling and running rather than rowing per se. Rowing a muscle beach affair, when you get down to it. Lots of heave ho-ing. Paddling and running are light and quick. The best runners seem to float along, way up on their toes, as though the are not even touching the ground. Beautiful to watch.<br /><br />So, I am somewhat amazed by this, but I think it is in my interest to try going back up on my toes to race. Excuse me for thinking so, but it is just better (for me).<br /><br />The exciting thing, though, is that because of my better timing, stronger legs and back, and longer stroke, stroking as light as I can, I can't do 36 spm at slower than 1:32! Does this mean that, if I can just get adequate endurance with this big stroke, I'm going to row 6:08 for 2K. Who knows?<br /><br />The first test of this, certainly, will be doing 8 x 500m. Then a better test will be doing 4 x 1K. If I can dash along on my toes at 36 spm and 1:32 and, because of this, recover the excellent racing endurance I used to have, watch out. I used to go 1:37 at 37

[[old] ranger]

(sorry, flubbed at the keyboard)<br /><br />I used to row 1:37 @ 36 spm, not 1:32.<br /><br />Perhaps there _has_ been something to this concentrated work on technique and stroking power.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

BTW, up on my toes, I still get a very nice hang on the handle right into the finish and therefore a very nice force curve, full and semicircular; but now, without having to wait for a heel plant into order to pull with my back and push hard with my legs, I probably engage both my back and my legs a fraction earlier and more strongly (i.e., the catch of my stroke becomes a bit quicker and stronger) and as a result, the force curve tilts forward and rises a bit early on, but without losing anything at the finish, given that I now finish fully with my arms. Because I am still hanging on the handle at the finish, I don't need the heel plant at the finish in order to leverage my arms, either. I can pull through just fine, just leveraging with my toes and pulling back on the handle.<br /><br />Interesting!<br /><br />Given my experience in a 1x, I suspect this rowing on your toes business is just for erging, and even so, just for racing. In a 1x, I suspect rowing on your toes might be too destabilizing, especially at high rates. I am sure going to give it try, though, when the ice melts and I am back out on the water. Should be interesting to see what happens. To this point, I haven't rowed on my toes in my 1x. In fact, I have tried rigorously to train myself not to.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

Going back up on my toes means that I should get back to jumping rope again. During the first five years or so of my rowing, I jumped rope for at least an hour a day (sometimes more), as a warm up for erging. For whatever reason, lately, I have given this up. <br /><br />Jumping rope strengthens your calves and toes and stabilizes the leg muscles involved when you are leveraging upward with the balls of your feet and your toes. I always jump rope in my bare feet just so that all of the jumping is on my toes, with no heel plant needed or even accidentally used. Jumping rope in your bare feet also makes you quicker and lighter with your feet and legs during the skipping routine. <br /><br />Last time I was racing, in 2003, I also used running quite a bit in my training. Lately, I have given that up as well. Perhaps I should go back to some running, too.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

I don't know for sure, but I would also guess that running, skipping, and then rowing on my toes to generate power with peripheral levers rather than the big muscles in my legs has also allowed me to make weight without losing stroking power. Because they are quick and light, running and skipping slim me down rather than beefing me up, especially in the hams, quads, and gluts. Many rowers have heavy looking legs and rears. Runners are usually slim-legged and narrow in the rear.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 8 2006, 07:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 8 2006, 07:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 7 2006, 01:11 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 7 2006, 01:11 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->all this talk about technical stuff  <br /><br />I can't help laughing a bit about it. Erging is a very easy movement, in all sports a competed I never found it so easy to do the sport. To me it's as simple as just improving physically and I erg faster.  <br /><br />sheers <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Depends on how fast you want to go, I guess. The standard in your division, rowed at right about your age, is 5:37, about 37 seconds beyond where you are now. That's over 9 seconds per 500! <br /><br />Hmm.<br /><br />Seems you would need to find some more power in your stroke if you were more ambitious! And then the question would arise, wouldn't it? How would you find this additional stroking power? <br /><br />By eating your Wheaties?<br /><br />Yea, I can't stop laughing about it, either!<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />If you would have looked a little but further than your nose is long you would have known that my situation is totaly differant then you discribe it. <br /><br />Back to you again. You were talking an erging/trainin on low drag and telling us that that's the way to go. Now in a forthnight you changed you mind and upped your drag al of a sudden and are telling you will row on this high drag again.<br />Your rowing on low drag was to train your speed and quickness, erging on 155 this can all be trown overboord. No need to be quick anymore, just pull and you will get your splits. <br /><br />I myself am rowing on low drag, 110/115, I think it's a bit to low. I tried to up it a bit, but immediatly found myself pulling way to hard. I almost could't row slow enough, To row at a higher drag you simply have to pull less hard, less quick.<br /><br />I think (and know) that the only foult you were making in you old stroke was not using the full slide. Cause No way in h*** it is possible to rate high and use a full stroke and just row 6.30 (lightweight/haveweight doesn,t matter) So the only thing you had to learn was using the hole slide.<br /><br />The reason I think you weren,t able to use the full slide was lack of strenght, this comming from your former way of training, long distance running, those athlete's don't have upperbodymuscle at all, so they lak strenght. The only thing you had to do was bringing your upperbodystrenght on right track.<br /><br />An other point , about your planning to erg the 8 x 500. You are planning to row that any way possible, just the pace is important. This would be wrong I think. You have to row the 500 meters in the same rate as you are planning to race your 2000. If you rate the 500 m very high the training is just your old way of erging.<br /><br /><br />To me the hole way of training you do is very high volume and enough pace and only that is helping you. All the talk about technik and drag and whatever is not important. To me it,s all volume, volume, volume.<br /><br />Ps about the quikness needed at low drag. Use it or lose it <br />

[[old] hjs]

I was a world record holder and, by working on technique for three years, I have increased the power of my normal, relaxed stroke by almost 3 SPI. At the same stroke rate, in a 2K, each watt per stroke is worth about ten seconds.<br /><br />Food for thought, huh?<br /><br /><br />Yes have raised your spi in training. Could you have don that an other way? I think you could have. Just doing good strengtwork in the gym would have don the job. I could row 1 k below 3 min. below rate 35 with just a little bit of erging. Why? I had enough strenght. You hadn,t.<br /><br />Bye the way although you say I am a heavyweight I have to say I am only 6.1 so just to small to really erg hard. I don,t know any short hwgt who rowed below 5.55. So 5.37 (that guy is 2,04, 18,5 cm longer then me) <br />

[[old] hjs]

I am curiuos about your running? what is your Pb on the full marathon. That will tell me a lot I think.

[[old] ranger]

This switch from rowing on my heels to rowing on my toes seems to be my own special version of the transition from training to racing and from strong stroking to trading rate for pace. In 2003, I also trained all off season strapless and at low drag (100 df.), low rates, and high stroking power, with a technique that included an early and firm heel plant. Then when it came around to racing, I upped the drag, exactly to what I have upped it to now, 155 df., and left behind the slow, heavy, and costly heel plant in order to row quickly, lightly, and more efficiently on my toes. The only difference is that in 2003, I was only rowing at about 13 SPI in my low spm training, rather than 14.7, as I am now. <br /><br />I have noticed for some time that putting my heels down gives me about 2 seconds/500 more power per stroke, or about 3/4 of an SPI. This is just what I found today when I started to row on my toes again. When I row off my heels, I do 1:30 @ 36 spm (13.3 SPI). When I row on my toes, this now drops to 1:32 (12.5 SPI), a loss of just this 3/4 of an SPI. Given these paces, though, if the energy cost of rowing off my heels makes it so that I can only row 28-30 spm for 2K when I plant my heels while the efficiency of rowing off my toes allows me to get all the way to 36 spm when I avoid this heel plant and row up on my toes, the decision about which technique to use is a no-brainer. 13.3 SPI @ 29 spm is 1:37 pace, my 2K pb two years ago after only one year of working on technique and stroking power. But 12.5 SPI at 36 spm, as I mentioned, is 1:32. <br /><br />The other advantage of rowing on your toes, I think, an advantage that I have sorely missed over the past three years of training, during which I have been rowing on my heels, is that, without a firm heel plant you can modulate the strength of a stroke much more easily, lightening up just a tad when you need to or pulling quite a bit harder when you must. This is _very_ useful when you are racing and any slight movement away from flat splits can spell disaster for your ability to be economical with your energy. When I row with a firm heel plant, though, I find this delicate modulation of pace much harder to accomplish. Pushing with your heels, you necessarily engage the big muscles in your legs and the resulting energy cost, regardless of how lightly you push, is still pretty severe, so you might as well just push as hard as you can and have done.<br /><br />I am delighted to realize these things this early in sharpening (six weeks to go until WIRC). Undoubtedly, rowing back up on my toes will make this work both more exciting (because considerably faster( and more enjoyable (because enormously easier).<br /><br />One final note. I have also noticed, especially early on in my work at slow rates and high stroking power using a firm heel plant, that low spm rowing of this sort, especially at low drag, is pretty violent stuff. Rowing at high rates with a firm heel plant is even more violennt! In fact, as everyone recommends, when you row with a strong stroke and a firm heel plant and therefore engage at full power the big muscles in your legs at high rates and with high intensity over any sort of extended time period you need next to forever (a week?) to recover. This is another major advantage of rowing on your toes, especially for sharpening. Without a firm heel plant, just using your toes and the peripheral levers in your legs, this high power, high rate work is not destructive at all. You recover quickly from it, so much so that you can do it every day. This lets someone rowing on their toes get in much more sharpening during a sharpening period than is possible for someone who rows on their heels--and with little cost, just 2 seconds, and much gain, an elevation of rate as much as 7 spm, which is worth over five seconds per 500. Net gain: about 15 seconds.<br /><br />Interestingly, back in 2003, I won BIRC by 10 seconds and EIRC by 12. This is just about in the range of time that I save, I think, by rowing on my toes vs. planting my heels. Rowing along way out ahead of the pack, I look feakily accomplished or talented or well trained as a rower. Maybe that's not it at all. Maybe I am no fitter or more gifted as a rower than anyone else. Maybe I am just rowing on my toes, trading rate for pace, and in doing so, reaping the advantages in efficiency--and everyone else isn't!<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bye the way although you say I am a heavyweight I have to say I am only 6.1 so just to small to really erg hard. I don,t know any short hwgt who rowed below 5.55. So 5.37 (that guy is 2,04, 18,5 cm longer then me) </td></tr></table><br /><br />Adjusted for age and weight our 2K times differ by 35 seconds. That's almostt 9 seconds per 500!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The reason I think you weren,t able to use the full slide was lack of strenght, this comming from your former way of training, long distance running, those athlete's don't have upperbodymuscle at all, so they lak strenght. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nope. I don't have a runner's upper body. I was also a swimmer and canoeist. Even at 55, I can do 30 pull ups, 30 extension press ups, etc. I have excellent full body strength, especially in my core and upper body. The low spm rowing has just helped me strengthen some of the muscles that are specific to the rowing stroke, especially in my legs.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Back to you again. You were talking an erging/trainin on low drag and telling us that that's the way to go. Now in a forthnight you changed you mind and upped your drag al of a sudden and are telling you will row on this high drag again.<br />Your rowing on low drag was to train your speed and quickness, erging on 155 this can all be trown overboord. No need to be quick anymore, just pull and you will get your splits. </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, not at all. Once you train your legs to be fast and strong, you can then use this speed and strength at high drag. The quickness that you learn is more about the neurophsiology of the motion and the rhythm of the stroke than anything else. These things don't change when you up the drag. In a sense, it is a little like blood doping, training in thin air at high altitude or sleeping in an oxygen tent with thin air and then coming out and racing where the air is thick.<br /><br />You exactly _don't_ lose your leg speed when you row at a higher drag. You use the same leg speed and by doing so against a higher drag hit _higher_ splits with the same motion, for me, about 2 seconds per 500. <br /><br />Much of this quick motion that plays against the higher drag is also very low in energy cost because it is just a more prolonged hanging on the handle. <br /><br />With faster legs, you fly!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 8 2006, 12:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 8 2006, 12:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bye the way although you say I am a heavyweight I have to say I am only 6.1 so just to small to really erg hard. I don,t know any short hwgt who rowed below 5.55. So 5.37 (that guy is 2,04, 18,5 cm longer then me) </td></tr></table><br /><br />Adjusted for age and weight our 2K times differ by 35 seconds. That's almostt 9 seconds per 500!<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />What the differance is we will know If we race and set a time. I heaven,t erged for 5 years. So I have no 2 k time. And you first will hace to race and produce a time. If I also race than we can compare. Not now. <br /><br />ps you ignore 1 thing I said. Why haven't I erged the last 5 years. (This looks a bit like jr) quot only what is convenient. <br />And also don,t think I hope your will fale, that's not true. I only think yoo row good because of your volume. That's the main thing.<br />

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Jan 8 2006, 12:52 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Jan 8 2006, 12:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The reason I think you weren,t able to use the full slide was lack of strenght, this comming from your former way of training, long distance running, those athlete's don't have upperbodymuscle at all, so they lak strenght. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Nope. I don't have a runner's upper body. I was also a swimmer and canoeist. Even at 55, I can do 30 pull ups, 30 extension press ups, etc. I have excellent full body strength, especially in my core and upper body. The low spm rowing has just helped me strengthen some of the muscles that are specific to the rowing stroke, especially in my legs.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Again you sound like JR . yes you do have now. Great ! but 3/4 years ago you had not. that's what was lacking than.