Curiosity about 2K training intervals

[G-dub]

I have been getting my fill of 8X500, 3x750, 10X1 min, etc. I noticed last night when I wanted to stretch out my 2K pace to beyond 1000 m I had a rude awakening about how loooong it was compared to the intervals most plans suggest. I was searching for the end rather quickly. I wonder why plans don't have more rows of this length at just faster than race pace or at say 2500 at just slower than race pace to get more used to the length of the event at pure gasp? The only longer rows are usually set into an interval session at closer to 5K pace, which doesn't feel the same. What am I missing?

[hjs]

I have been getting my fill of 8X500, 3x750, 10X1 min, etc. I noticed last night when I wanted to stretch out my 2K pace to beyond 1000 m I had a rude awakening about how loooong it was compared to the intervals most plans suggest. I was searching for the end rather quickly. I wonder why plans don't have more rows of this length at just faster than race pace or at say 2500 at just slower than race pace to get more used to the length of the event at pure gasp? The only longer rows are usually set into an interval session at closer to 5K pace, which doesn't feel the same. What am I missing?

Simpe... Like most you don,t do enough 2k s.

Also the 4x 1k on 5 minutes is a good one. 1 min reps and 500 are not like a 2k..

[G-dub]

Totally simple. But the normal plans don't include that, except for tests every now and again, and that is why I wonder.

[jackarabit]

There are "endurance intervals" in the Pete Plan: 5x1.5K, 4x2K, 3-2.5-2K descending ladder. Initial first attempt pacing is stipulated in the plan. Best times in my case were equivalent to my best speed interval times +4 to 6" per split. The speed interval sessions are 8x500, 250<1K>250 pyramid, 4x1K. After six weeks of Pete, I discovered I wasn't able to do six days on and one R&R and stopped with the convenient excuse of wanting to post to a C2 month-long challenge and thinking 44K per wk. from the plan wasn't enuf. Real speed killer there! Next time, I will add at least one additional rest day to the Pete Plan and try to stick with it. YMMV. Jack

[hjs]

Totally simple. But the normal plans don't include that, except for tests every now and again, and that is why I wonder.

What are normal plans? I think doing done kind of testing is needed, and 2k is just 2k it hurts no more than any other test. If done hard..

[jackarabit]

The Pete Plan is normal if by normal is meant well known, highly visible, easily and cheaply accessible by internet, familiar. It contains what Henry suggests. Start from there. Jack

[hjs]

The Pete Plan is normal if by normal is meant well known, highly visible, easily and cheaply accessible by internet, familiar. It contains what Henry suggests. Start from there. Jack

Suited for a shorter while, you will in end run into a wall. Its a sharpening plan towards races. Not a year round plan.

[jamesg]

What am I missing?

Nothing, if you've already done plenty of endurance work under HR control; say 50 x 10k at UT2 and UT1. In this case it's just a question of pacing, start slow and wind it up at 1500.

2k can be done at about 140% of UT1 power; so turning it upside down, if you want to 2k at 300 W (7') you need to paddle the 500k at 180-220W with appropriate rating, 70% of the rate you use in a race.

See here too:
http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive

The Wolverine L4 tables are excellent work too, and time flies. Typical rating pyramids are 18-20-22-20-18 for total 10 minutes (repeat 3-4 times), each stroke at your full work level. This is also a good way of learning to erg, if needed.

[jackarabit]

hjs writes:

Its [Pete Plan] a sharpening plan towards races. Not a year round plan.

Marston says it is a continuous plan. I loved doing it but hit a wall built by too much time in AT and above heart rate zones on the long (>8K) days. Jack

[G-dub]

By normal I meant the IP plan and the Pete Plan. The IP plan has me doing short hard intervals leading up to race. In between is UT1. I used to race 400m running when younger and I would have never thought that jogging 3-4 miles and then doing 100 meter sprints would have been the way to train for it (please excuse the bad example but you get my drift). Maybe I need to break out of the plan and give sub mad 2k's a go in place of one of the interval days.

[DanielJ]

The Wolverine Plan suggests a 4x2k as one of the Level 2 workouts, as well as the 3-2.5-2k. Level 2 workouts (extended intervals of about 8k length) are done bi-weekly, or perhaps every 10 days or weekly if you have time and inclination for lots of workouts, and constitute about 6-8% of total metres.

Just be sure to get a good, substantial and light (at about 40% of your optimal 2k wattage) warmup, and stay lightly active (again, about 40% of optimal 2k wattage) in the rest periods. And make the rest periods big and substantial too - perhaps 7-8 minutes for 2k intervals. The whole point of intervals is to be able to do the intervals well.

4 x 2k, given big, proper rest periods, ought to be slightly faster, perhaps 0.5-1 secs, than optimal 5k pace.

I'm not sure about 3-2.5-2k pace, but I suspect it's about the same.


Re the Pete Plan, in my opinion it's a bit sharp to be a totally continuous plan, but then I'm unfit. For me, for it to be a continuous plan, it should be altered a bit. I think I'd stretch the three weeks out to six weeks (so week 1 would be week 1, week 2 becomes week 3 and week 3 becomes week 5), and the new weeks 2, 4 and 6 would see more UT1 and UT2 work. Or something like that. Maybe I should call that the Dan Plan.

[jackarabit]

I think you're right about the PP needing dilution, Daniel. An old weakfish like myself probably does need 12 days to do six of PPlan--six on six off. I was avoiding the cruel truth by suggesting that one additional rest day would be enuf to keep me in action. I have trouble believing that you would need that much rest. Jack

[hjs]

hjs writes:

Its [Pete Plan] a sharpening plan towards races. Not a year round plan.

Marston says it is a continuous plan. I loved doing it but hit a wall built by too much time in AT and above heart rate zones on the long (>8K) days. Jack

He can say all he wants its not. You only just started and already hit a wall.
The normal wall is the speedsessions getting at max. Speed is not something you can or should train at max year round.

If you did the longer sessions to fast you did not do the plan.

[hjs]

By normal I meant the IP plan and the Pete Plan. The IP plan has me doing short hard intervals leading up to race. In between is UT1. I used to race 400m running when younger and I would have never thought that jogging 3-4 miles and then doing 100 meter sprints would have been the way to train for it (please excuse the bad example but you get my drift). Maybe I need to break out of the plan and give sub mad 2k's a go in place of one of the interval days.

The ip plan has 2 k tests. It even starts with it.

Rowing a 2k is mostly aerobic, sprinting up to 400 meter is hardly aerobic. You can in no way compare the 2.

The point is a bit that a max 2k is very hard. They will never get easy, only the very talented, very well trained can do one and feel relative ok. Others or feel utter crap or don,t do all out or don,t do them at all..

[G-dub]

Daniel J, my point is that there are no workouts in the IP at least that say 2K @ 90% race pace (or the like) every other week. A 4 x 2K is a different experience. And an 8 X 500 is too. It was only when I tried to do a 4 x 1k last night at race pace (yikes that's a lot farther than 500 or 750 even) that I realized that a 2K is its own animal and it seems like we should practice it more so the distance doesn't shock so much.