Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->20 x 1k @ 1:43 pace isn't necessarily hard at all. For example, try it with 24 hrs rest between intervals </td></tr></table><br /><br />I paddled 1K inbetween each 1K, so about 5 minutes rest between intervals.<br /><br />In all, the row is a leisurely marathon, about 2:05 pace in all, just around 3 hours of work.<br /><br />Actually, Zatopek 1Ks are much _easier_ than the Zatopek 500s and 250s.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Only 7 spm"? (28% change in rate) This could be far more of a surprise than you think it is </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, it is nice to have 54-59 lwt WR 2K pace (1:40.2) coming at 27 spm, AT. That is only 2 spm above the 1:44 @ 25 spm.<br /><br />I will be doing a lot of 2Ks at 1:40 @ 27 spm over the next two months, hoping to get to 4 x 2K at 1:40.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-H_2O+Dec 13 2005, 07:01 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Dec 13 2005, 07:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It does look like Ranger is biased too much toward endurance.<br />WR or not I don't think he is making the most of his 2K. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br />In rowing, you can't have too much endurance. In any given training cycle, the quantity and quality of the speed work you can do depends on the quantity and quality of the endurance work you have done.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 13 2005, 07:03 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 13 2005, 07:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All his endurance is low level though, compared to his speed. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Actually, I think my endurance has always been great. What was bad was my efficiency. I was rowing at 200 df. with poor technique.<br /><br />If my 2K is 1:37, "double the d, add 3" predicts 17K for an hour and 1:50 pace for a marathon. With my more efficient stroke, I think I will now hit both of those targets this winter, as I lighten up my stroke and start going for pace rather than power.<br /><br />If so, my speed and distance times will be exactly balanced.<br /><br />If I can do a marathon at 1:50, it will be about 10 minutes better than any 55-59 lwt has done. If I can still do 2K at 1:37 (or below), it will be about 13 seconds better than any 55-59 lwt has done.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How can the 5k @ 1:45 be "hard" when 20 x 1k @ 1:43 is even possible? </td></tr></table><br /><br />At the time, 1:43 for me was 1K + 9.5 but 1:45 was 5K + 1.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 05:11 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If I can do a marathon at 1:50, it will be about 10 minutes better than any 55-59 lwt has done. If I can still do 2K at 1:37 (or below), it will be about 13 seconds better than any 55-59 lwt has done.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? <br /><br />GLENDOWERANGER: Why, I can teach you, cousin, to command the devil. <br /><br />HOTNAVHASPUR: And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil by telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil. If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither, and I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence. O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil! <br /><br /> -- Henry IV Part 1 Act III Scene 1. Vermont, the Archdeacon's Virtual Room.<br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-H_2O+Dec 13 2005, 07:01 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Dec 13 2005, 07:01 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It does look like Ranger is biased too much toward endurance.<br />WR or not I don't think he is making the most of his 2K. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry, but I don't know what to make of comments like this, which seem to be offered frequently.<br /><br />When the dust settles after this year of racing, I think my 2K will be 10-15 seconds better than anyone has ever done for my age and weight.<br /><br />I guess I just wonder. How could this be if my trainiing is not making the most of my 2K? <br /><br />What is your age, weight, and 2K, H2O?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] hjs]

[quote=ranger,Dec 14 2005, 03:10 PM]<br />[quote=H_2O,Dec 13 2005, 07:01 PM]It does look like Ranger is biased too much toward endurance.<br />WR or not I don't think he is making the most of his 2K. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Sorry, but I don't know what to make of comments like this, which seem to be offered frequently.<br /><br />When the dust settles after this year of racing, I think my 2K will be 10-15 seconds better than anyone has ever done for my age and weight.<br /><br />I guess I just wonder. How could this be if my trainiing is not making the most of my 2K? <br /><br />What is your age, weight, and 2K, H2O?<br /><br /><br />Question for you ranger. If one would train for a full marathon. How should that training be different compared to what you do now. I think it,s almost impossible to train more in volume. <br />To make it short. What is the differance in training for a 2 k versus a 42.195 k ?<br />

[[old] ranger]

Another 90 minutes of stepping at 300 watts after erging this morning.<br /><br />Finishing HR 141 bpm. <br /><br />The training effect I got a couple of days ago seems to be permanent. These routines are now much easier, clearly UT2 rather than UT1. <br /><br />Time to push the duration of these routines to 2 hours--and beyond.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To make it short. What is the differance in training for a 2 k versus a 42.195 k ? </td></tr></table><br /><br />The 2K presupposes all of the other distances.<br /><br />Ideally, the rower who is best at the 2K for some age and weight is also best at the marathon.<br /><br />IMHO, you can't train for your best 2K without also training for the marathon.<br /><br />If you row with good form (i.e., 20-22 spm), as you always should, your marathon pb is just a verification of what UT2 pace you have achieved. The distance enforces the 70% HRR limitation.<br /><br />The C2 manual gives these 2K and UT2 correlations:<br /><br />6:16 2K, 1:48.5 UT2/marathon<br />6:20 2K, 1:50 UT2/marathon<br />6:24 2K, 1:51 UT2/marathon<br />6:28 2K, 1:52 UT2/marathon<br />6:32 2K, 1:53.5 UT2/marathon<br />6:36 2K, 1:54 UT2/marathon<br />6:40 2K, 1:55 UT2/marathon<br />6:44 2K 1:56 UT2/marathon<br />6:48 2K 1:57 UT2/marathon<br />6:52 2K, 1:58.5 UT2/marathon<br />6:56 2K, 2:00 UT2/marathon<br />7:00 2K 2:o1 UT2/marathon<br /><br />Example: When Mike Caviston broke the 40s lwt record with his 6:18, he worked up to 32K at 1:48 and said that he could probably have pushed that to a full marathon (2:32), if he had wanted to. This is almost exactly what the C2 manual would predict. That is, Caviston established something like a 1:48 UT2/marathon pace as a distance foundation for his 6:18 2K.<br /><br />I think I might eventually get to 1:48 for a UT2 pace, but for now, my goal is 1:50. This is a distance base for a 6:20 2K. <br /><br />ranger

[[old] R S T]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 02:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 02:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another 90 minutes of stepping at 300 watts after erging this morning.<br /><br />Finishing HR 141 bpm. <br /><br />The training effect I got a couple of days ago seems to be permanent. These routines are now much easier, clearly UT2 rather than UT1. <br /><br />Time to push the duration of these routines to 2 hours--and beyond.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Ranger<br /><br />I would have thought that if you were entering a 'sharpening' phase you would be doing more 'Specific' type training i.e. erging rather than cross training. Presumably this cross training is to supplement your aerobic training on erg?<br /><br />A few questions:<br /><br />(1) At what stage before your next 2k race (third week in Jan 06?) will you commence sharpening. <br />(2) What will your 'sharpening' training consist of?<br />(3) Will you do a home trial 2k test prior to your next 2k race? If so, what do you predict?<br />(4) When was your last 'all-out' 2k (old stroke or new) and what was your time?<br /><br />Thanks in advance<br />Richard

[[old] hjs]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 14 2005, 03:40 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 14 2005, 03:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To make it short. What is the differance in training for a 2 k versus a 42.195 k ? </td></tr></table><br /><br />The 2K presupposes all of the other distances.<br /><br />Ideally, the rower who is best at the 2K for some age and weight is also best at the marathon.<br /><br />IMHO, you can't train for your best 2K without also training for the marathon.<br /><br />If you row with good form (i.e., 20-22 spm), as you always should, your marathon pb is just a verification of what UT2 pace you have achieved. The distance enforces the 70% HRR limitation.<br /><br />The C2 manual gives these 2K and UT2 correlations:<br /><br />6:16 2K, 1:48.5 UT2/marathon<br />6:20 2K, 1:50 UT2/marathon<br />6:24 2K, 1:51 UT2/marathon<br />6:28 2K, 1:52 UT2/marathon<br />6:32 2K, 1:53.5 UT2/marathon<br />6:36 2K, 1:54 UT2/marathon<br />6:40 2K, 1:55 UT2/marathon<br />6:44 2K 1:56 UT2/marathon<br />6:48 2K 1:57 UT2/marathon<br />6:52 2K, 1:58.5 UT2/marathon<br />6:56 2K, 2:00 UT2/marathon<br />7:00 2K 2:o1 UT2/marathon<br /><br />Example: When Mike Caviston broke the 40s lwt record with his 6:18, he worked up to 32K at 1:48 and said that he could probably have pushed that to a full marathon (2:32), if he had wanted to. This is almost exactly what the C2 manual would predict. That is, Caviston established something like a 1:48 UT2/marathon pace as a distance foundation for his 6:18 2K.<br /><br />I think I might eventually get to 1:48 for a UT2 pace, but for now, my goal is 1:50. This is a distance base for a 6:20 2K. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />As so often you don,t answer a question directly. But for me you say. For a 6 min race or a 2,5 hour race you wil have to do the same. And the winnaar of a 2 k should also win a marathon at the same time. <br />Everybody knows this can,t en is not true. strange strange strange the way you think.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->for me you say. For a 6 min race or a 2,5 hour race you wil have to do the same. And the winnaar of a 2 k should also win a marathon at the same time. <br />Everybody knows this can,t en is not true. strange strange strange the way you think. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, being sensible on this forum can seem strange!<br /><br />I sympathize with your response.<br /><br />So, some questions:<br /><br />Who has the best hwt 40s marathon this year?<br />Who has the best lwt 50s marathon ever?<br /><br />If you lined up a bunch of 30s lwt ergers, the best in the world, to row a marathon, who would you pick to win?<br /><br />And so forth.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Who has the best hwt 40s marathon this year? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry. This should also read "ever" rather than "this year."<br /><br />2:27 and 2:35 are pretty different scores!<br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE<br />Who has the best hwt 40s marathon this year?<br /><br /><br />Sorry. This should also read "ever" rather than "this year."<br /><br />2:27 and 2:35 are pretty different scores!<br /><br />ranger </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwaynne has every distance record except the official 2000 doesn't he? And he's done a witnessed 5:47/2000.