Ranger - News To Shock

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 5 2005, 07:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 07:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now we see a disgruntled "coach" belittling the athlete because the (SPI) training didn't work.<br /><br />Very sad... and no surprise it has turned out this way.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John (ID10T), <br />I'm guessing that you are once again trying to insult me in some way. I have no idea what you mean by "SPI training" working or not working. Ranger has mentioned SPI in his training, and I have mentioned that since the unit is "not pure and subject to manipulation", it can't really be meaningfully used in the way he was using it. However, I've never said that he can't have his own vocabulary, even if I did create the term (SPI). We're all free to do what we want, very simple. <br /><br /><br />Ranger, <br />Am I "belittling you" in any way? (To make things clear, I certainly don't think I am.) If you are feeling belittled, I'm happy to apologize, though I can't guarantee that I won't hurt your feelings in the future, so toughen up.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 5 2005, 07:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 07:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now we see a disgruntled "coach" belittling the athlete because the (SPI) training didn't work.<br /><br />Very sad... and no surprise it has turned out this way.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Very sad...

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 5 2005, 09:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 09:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 5 2005, 07:58 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 5 2005, 07:58 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now we see a disgruntled "coach" belittling the athlete because the (SPI) training didn't work.<br /><br />Very sad... and no surprise it has turned out this way.   <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Very sad... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Is this your new mode of communication? (Posting to yourself) <br />You do know that it is not required to share your insanity with others, don't you? (Sorry, silly question.)

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Now we see a disgruntled "coach" belittling the athlete because the (SPI) training didn't work. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Rowing at low drag is much more enjoyable and aesthetic.<br /><br />The strapless rowing I did worked beautifully to build up my legs and make them faster. <br /><br />Concentration on technique has improved my timing enormously. On the PM3, my stroke is now a perfect semicircle. <br /><br />I now race very close to 10MPS: 1:37 @ 31 spm (12.4 SPI).<br /><br />The long, discontinuous low rate, high power rowing that I am doing now is building up my endurance with high stroking power.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger, <br />Am I "belittling you" in any way? (To make things clear, I certainly don't think I am.) If you are feeling belittled, I'm happy to apologize, though I can't guarantee that I won't hurt your feelings in the future, so toughen up.  </td></tr></table><br /><br />Toughen up?<br /><br /> <br /><br />If life hasn't made you tough by the time you reach 55 (and have raised three children), it's time to find a new "training" plan!<br /><br />We disagree on some things, Paul, but other than that, I have been delighted with the results of what I have chosen to take from the advice you have given me.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

BTW, erging is indeed an individual sport.<br /><br />This doesn't mean that there aren't track teams, swimming teams, skating teams, erging teams.<br /><br />Different issues. No need to conflate these issues, playing with words. <br /><br />A team sport is a very different matter.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 6 2005, 08:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 6 2005, 08:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ranger, <br />Am I "belittling you" in any way? (To make things clear, I certainly don't think I am.) If you are feeling belittled, I'm happy to apologize, though I can't guarantee that I won't hurt your feelings in the future, so toughen up.  </td></tr></table><br /><br />Toughen up?<br /><br /> <br /><br />If life hasn't made you tough by the time you reach 55 (and have raised three children), it's time to find a new "training" plan!<br /><br />We disagree on some things, Paul, but other than that, I have been delighted with the results of what I have chosen to take from the advice you have given me.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's why I put the "If" right up front, I suspect that you are plenty tough. Heck, even I wouldn't ask you to do what you do to yourself. <br /><br />I just wanted to make things perfectly clear, as opposed to having John's nutty opinion cloud reality.<br /><br />You're welcome.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The fact that you have hammers -- however many -- is, today, immaterial. Congratulations on your past performance. OK, now that that's over, let's talk about today.<br /><br />Talk is very cheap these days. It's easy to have people worldwide see your words. Actions? A bit more pricey. Actions require more commitment ... more sacrifice ... more risk ... more investment.<br /><br />Be courageous and show us what you've got ... or not. But, if you choose to not show us, please just be quiet. That's all we ask. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark--<br /><br />I appreciate your enthusiasm. Good luck with your rowing. But I am not sure that your light banter has much to do with my situation. I am trying to train to get better, even though I am already the fastest person ever for my age and weight. This takes some doing, and the "results" are not at all certain. Over the last four years, I already lowered the WR in my age and weight category by four seconds, and I think I might still have a chance of lowering it further, even though I am at the very outer limits now of the 5-year category (50-54 lwt).<br /><br />I am doing 4-5 hours of training a day in order to try to achieve this goal. These are not actions? <br /><br />If you want to get better, training is the only way. It is the _only_ relevant action.<br /><br />What does talk have to do with it?<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actions require more commitment ... more sacrifice ... more risk ... more investment.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br />ranger<br />

[[old] ranger]

Mark--<br /><br />What I need to do requires more investment than 5 hours of training a day?<br /><br />Can you clarify what you mean by this and why you understand this but I don't?<br /><br />You are claiming that _I_ am the "talker" rather than the "doer"?<br /><br />I am having a hard time understanding. <br /><br />Honestly, I _can't_ work any harder or have any higher goals. I am working as hard as I can with my sights set on the highest goals imaginable.<br /><br />These are not relevant standards of "dong"?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 6 2005, 08:14 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 6 2005, 08:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Different issues. No need to conflate these issues, playing with words. <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So why did you just do it? <br /><br />There were even 2x, 4x, and 8x events at the EIRC it doesn't get much more TEAM than that. Even in the 1x (Erg) it seems to be more of a 1+, so I guess the place where Rowing is truly not a team sport is in a 1x, or on an Erg without a cox (certainly can be done, but it's rare by comparison in competition). But then again, Marcel Hacker had what was described as a personal "entourage" along with him at regattas. Olaf Tufte does seem to be a rather standalone kind of guy, and he even puts together the "farmers challenge" at his place in Norway, which is definitely an Individual athletic endeavor.<br /><br />I guess this can be one thing we can continue to disagree about. BTW - I personally prefer the "individual" idea of the Erg, but have realized that's just not how it is for the majority of Indoor Rowers. The fact that we congregate at various locations around the world to row on a machine that is the same anywhere in the world validates that there is something more than just an "individual" thing going on. I'm very happy doing Erg Trials alone.<br /><br />As for boats, I'm exactly opposite, the only boats worth rowing and competing in are the team boats, as it's fun to share the experience and success with others.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 6 2005, 08:18 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 6 2005, 08:18 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just wanted to make things perfectly clear, as opposed to having John's nutty opinion cloud reality.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Let's not get confused by reality. <br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 6 2005, 08:40 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 6 2005, 08:40 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for boats, I'm exactly opposite, the only boats worth rowing and competing in are the team boats, as it's fun to share the experience and success with others.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Team boats are good for those who are not capable of rowing in singles.<br /><br />Eights are good for those not qualified to get selected for rowing in fours.<br /><br />The social aspects can be nice (when not hypocritical), but that is not to be confused with fitness or athleticism.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 6 2005, 08:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 6 2005, 08:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What I need to do requires more investment than 5 hours of training a day?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />So you are doing what then, 75 kilometers every day?<br /><br />Rich,<br /><br />I believe that like I believe you can do a half marathon at 1:45 pace at 22 spm. <br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I guess this can be one thing we can continue to disagree about. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul, we don't disagree. You are still just playing with words. You are also attributing things to me that have nothing to do with my attitudes or my experience. Why?<br /><br />I have been on sports teams all of my life and have spent zillions of hours, days, months, years, going to workouts/meets/events/races in many individual sports--swimming, running (track, cross country, indoor and outdoor), skating (indoor and outdoor), canoeing, tennis, etc. <br /><br />Yes, people congregate. Yes, there is great comraderie. Yes, training can be enormously communal. It is _very_ pleasant; never said it wasn't. Most of the best friendships I have had in my life have come through my experience on sports teams. I have also been on many teams in true team sports--basketball, football, baseball, etc. Albeit noncompetitively, I have now done a season of rowing in an eight, and have done some rowing in a 2x. As a parent, I have also now seen three children through twenty years of participation of sports teams, mostly in team sportsof various sorts--basketball, soccer, field hockey, etc., but also in individual sports--gymnastics, swimming, etc. <br /><br />What has happened in the talk on this forum over the last few years has had nothing to do with sports teams or my attitudes towards the experience of being on sports teams. Why would you say it does?<br /><br />In these things, you are not _just_ playing with words. You are misrepresenting, saying things you know nothing about, imputing motives where they are not present, and many other more serious matters.<br /><br />Perhaps this is it:<br /><br />Are you saying that you regard this forum as a sports team? That you (and people like Caviston) are the "coaches" of this team? That those who speak up as "individuals" on this forum, with new or idiosyncratic ideas, are then out of line and should mind that what they say reflects what the "coaches" say, etc., or suffer the consequences? That, folks such as you, being "coaches," are in an asymmetrical relation to the rest of us, and therefore, have the right to speak up for ideas about training but others do not? That those who disagee or do "individual" things are thus insubordinate and should be "kicked off" this team? And so forth? <br /><br />If so, I begin to understand, although I am indeed curious where these beliefs and attitudes come from and what their basis is.<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />