Percentage of World Records

From the CRASH-B's to an online challenge, discuss the competitive side of erging here.
PaulH
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Post by PaulH » March 17th, 2006, 10:15 pm

John Rupp wrote:Is the Perathlon also over inflated? Let's take a realistic look and find out.

Dean Smith's time of 7:29.3 at age 79 is 80.70% of Elia Luini's men's lightweight record. Dividing this by the age 79 PWR of 80.70 gives him a PERathlon score of 100.00. This is right on the mark, and neither other inflated nor under. You can't get any closer than this! And it is certainly closer than a 7 percent difference.
The Nonathlon is very definitely open to criticism (it's also open to analysis - I explain on the site how it's calculated, though I do need to publish the most recent spreadsheet - I can mail it if you'd like), and I can name a range of ways in which it's flawed. That doesn't, of course make your system any more or less valid.

In reference to your remark above - You appear to have used Dean Smith's times (and in an earlier example, Lyle Parker's) to define what '100%' means, and then entirely separately used those same times to test your model. Sure enough, those times fit your model perfectly!

I'm very interested, however, to learn how you're creating these curves; are they polynomial curves, and if so what order? Simple straight lines, Power curves? Log curves?

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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 18th, 2006, 2:15 am

PaulH wrote:are they polynomial curves, and if so what order? Simple straight lines, Power curves? Log curves?
Power curves.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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Post by hjs » March 18th, 2006, 6:33 am

PaulH wrote:
John Rupp wrote:Is the Perathlon also over inflated? Let's take a realistic look and find out.

Dean Smith's time of 7:29.3 at age 79 is 80.70% of Elia Luini's men's lightweight record. Dividing this by the age 79 PWR of 80.70 gives him a PERathlon score of 100.00. This is right on the mark, and neither other inflated nor under. You can't get any closer than this! And it is certainly closer than a 7 percent difference.
The Nonathlon is very definitely open to criticism (it's also open to analysis - I explain on the site how it's calculated, though I do need to publish the most recent spreadsheet - I can mail it if you'd like), and I can name a range of ways in which it's flawed. That doesn't, of course make your system any more or less valid.

In reference to your remark above - You appear to have used Dean Smith's times (and in an earlier example, Lyle Parker's) to define what '100%' means, and then entirely separately used those same times to test your model. Sure enough, those times fit your model perfectly!

I'm very interested, however, to learn how you're creating these curves; are they polynomial curves, and if so what order? Simple straight lines, Power curves? Log curves?
The Nonathlon is a nice thing but if I may criticise it a bit. It seems to feavor the older athletes. High up in rankings are mostly older people to find. It can be that younger people don,t rank there times but If that is enough to explain it?

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johnlvs2run
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Here is how to find your 2k PERathon score

Post by johnlvs2run » March 18th, 2006, 4:37 pm

Last edited by johnlvs2run on June 12th, 2007, 9:56 pm, edited 12 times in total.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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PaulS
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Re: Here is how to find your 2k PERathon score

Post by PaulS » March 18th, 2006, 4:41 pm

John Rupp wrote: 3:37.0 ... heavyweight men
Pretty tough standard for the fastest Group, but hey, that's what we're here for.... B)
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johnlvs2run
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conversion factors for the other events

Post by johnlvs2run » March 18th, 2006, 4:45 pm

Last edited by johnlvs2run on June 12th, 2007, 9:56 pm, edited 13 times in total.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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NavigationHazard
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Post by NavigationHazard » March 18th, 2006, 6:20 pm

So my 500m WR for 50s MHW is

((337/.9495)/4.4612)/80.8 = 95.2

and my 1000m WR is

((337/.9495)/2.148)/178.5 = 92.56

Hmmm. A 100% score for 500m for 50s MHWs would be 1:19.557. Not only do I think that's actually doable, I think I might be able to do 1:19 flat if I hit everything right. That would give me 100.7%.

But a 100% POORathlon score for 1000m for 50s MHWs would be 2:45.23. That's utterly preposterous -- it's 13.27 seconds under the current record, roughly what Graham Benton rowed earlier this season for the 30-39 record, and indicative of a 2k time well under 5:50. For 60s MHWs a 100% score would be 2:55.51. That's 4.49 seconds under James Castellan's astonishing new WR of 3:00.0 and indicative of a 2k time well under 6:10.

You might want to rethink those conversion factors.
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 18th, 2006, 7:50 pm

The Perathlon curve has equalized the 4 open World Records, and made the curve slightly tougher, i.e. at a true World Record level.

The marathon conversion factor has been raised, to bring marathon scores in line with other events.
Last edited by johnlvs2run on June 12th, 2007, 9:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 18th, 2006, 7:55 pm

A heavyweight men's age 50 time of 1:17.0 for the 500 meters would be a PERathlon score of 100.

5:37.0 / .9495 / 4.612 = 1:17.0
Last edited by johnlvs2run on March 18th, 2006, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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NavigationHazard
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Post by NavigationHazard » March 18th, 2006, 8:17 pm

John Rupp wrote:A heavyweight men's age 50 time of 1:17.0 for the 500 meters would be a PERathlon score of 100.

3:37.0 / .9495 / 4.612 = 1:17.0
The Open Men's WR for 2k is 5:37, John. That's 337 seconds, not a time of 3:37.

But you're right, if you use a conversion factor of 4.612. Unless you put it up as 4.4612 and then changed it, I copied it wrong.

Having said that, a time of 1:16.96 is flat out impossible. That would require a 3.84 second improvement on the present record.
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johnlvs2run
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Post by johnlvs2run » March 18th, 2006, 8:33 pm

The 500m conversion wasn't one of the many mistakes that I've made so far. :lol:

I think a heavyweight men's age 50 time of 1:17.0 for 500 meters is not only possible but quite feasible and, indeed, might go somewhat faster than that. Consider, your 2k is barely 6:20, hardly much faster than the lightweight time, yet you're already close to this time for 500 meters. So I think when a 50+ heavy comes along, who can row the 2k somewhere under 6 minutes, that he will quite probably do right around a 1:17 for 500 meters.

More importantly, this is the time that is shown by the World Record curve.
bikeerg 75 5'8" 155# - 18.5 - 51.9 - 568 - 1:52.7 - 8:03.8 - 20:13.1 - 14620 - 40:58.7 - 28855 - 1:23:48.0
rowerg 56-58 5'8.5" 143# - 1:39.6 - 3:35.6 - 7:24.0 - 18:57.4 - 22:49.9 - 7793 - 38:44.7 - 1:22:48.9 - 2:58:46.2

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PaulS
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Post by PaulS » March 18th, 2006, 8:34 pm

NavigationHazard wrote:
John Rupp wrote:A heavyweight men's age 50 time of 1:17.0 for the 500 meters would be a PERathlon score of 100.

3:37.0 / .9495 / 4.612 = 1:17.0
The Open Men's WR for 2k is 5:37, John. That's 337 seconds, not a time of 3:37.

But you're right, if you use a conversion factor of 4.612. Unless you put it up as 4.4612 and then changed it, I copied it wrong.

Having said that, a time of 1:16.96 is flat out impossible. That would require a 3.84 second improvement on the present record.
Stop being a wuss! B)
Erg on,
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Post by cbrock » March 18th, 2006, 10:51 pm

John Rupp wrote:The 500m conversion wasn't one of the many mistakes that I've made so far. :lol:

I think a heavyweight men's age 50 time of 1:17.0 for 500 meters is not only possible but quite feasible and, indeed, might go somewhat faster than that. Consider, your 2k is barely 6:20, hardly much faster than the lightweight time, yet you're already close to this time for 500 meters. So I think when a 50+ heavy comes along, who can row the 2k somewhere under 6 minutes, that he will quite probably do right around a 1:17 for 500 meters.

More importantly, this is the time that is shown by the World Record curve.
Your new calculations look pretty good to me John. Good Work!

I agree the M 50 HW record is soft.

Compared to Joan Van Blom's F M 50 LW Record NAV Haz has a lot of work to do.

Bit of a Nancy Boy at 122k.

Chris

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Post by Ben Rea » March 19th, 2006, 11:03 am

i cant find out mine though because it only goes down to age 35.......and im 15 :cry:

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Post by PaulS » March 19th, 2006, 11:30 am

Ben Rea wrote:i cant find out mine though because it only goes down to age 35.......and im 15 :cry:
Consider yourself fortunate. B)
Erg on,
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