Discussion On Adjustments ...

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Dec 27 2005, 03:10 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Dec 27 2005, 03:10 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With straps it's not so mythical -- farting around last summer I did 1:32.5 r21, which is 21.1 spi without particularly trying, and several other (younger) nutters on the Brit forum were faster.  I have zero doubt that Graham Benton could push 25 spi or more for 500m at that low a rating, if for some bizarre reason he saw fit to try it. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's why I was associating Ranger with the "mythical". I have no problem with it being a reasonable possibility, albeit requiring power which most do not relate to.<br /><br />Graham may have already done that SPI=25 with his 1:14 500m (or is that Dwayne?), as long as it was done at a SR=34, Or he could try a 1:35 @ 16, or 1:30 @ 19 (most likely, IMO).<br /><br />Heck, Grahams 2k 5:46 @ 29 is SPI=18.6, which is impressive enough. <br /><br />Just don't let him get ahold of a oar that is not in good repair.

[[old] NavigationHazard]

Dang. I was just about to offer to arrange a RowPro webcast of the 500m challenge....

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 27 2005, 03:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 27 2005, 03:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 27 2005, 03:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 27 2005, 03:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's what I can do for you John, since your 500m is so poor, I'll give you the same 15.3 second handicap for that, rather generous I know, but I'm feeling nice.[right] </td></tr></table><br />I want everyone to note that PaulS has chickened out of challenging me to a 5k on the erg based on PATT percentages. This, even though the 5k is closer to Paul's best event, the 500 meters, than it is to my favorite event, the half marathon.<br /><br />Thus this challenge would have given a big advantage in Paul's favor.<br /><br />Even so, he chickened out of it.<br /><br />So I am withdrawing the opportunity for him to challenge me at the 5k, and if he wishes to consider a challenge in the future it will be at a truer measure of athletic performance, the half marathon distance. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hmmm, it sounds like a chicken, but looks like a duck.<br /><br />You just couldn't step up to the plate and follow through on your challenge, I guess in Bizzaro World that is how you do things. Strange place.<br />

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To beat his fastest posted 500m (1:43.0), which works out to a PATT of 85.0, you'd need to do a 1:29.6 while you're still 42, and a 1:30.1 if you wait until your birthday on the 16th. I'm willing to bet you can do that strapless r26. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul the 500m looks mighty inviting, you could do that between first and second quaters of a bowl game! I'll even be happy to sub in for you (not that you need it) as long a JR doesn't get Ranger as his sub! <br /><br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Dec 27 2005, 04:18 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Dec 27 2005, 04:18 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To beat his fastest posted 500m (1:43.0), which works out to a PATT of 85.0, you'd need to do a 1:29.6 while you're still 42, and a 1:30.1 if you wait until your birthday on the 16th. I'm willing to bet you can do that strapless r26. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul the 500m looks mighty inviting, you could do that between first and second quaters of a bowl game! I'll even be happy to sub in for you (not that you need it) as long a JR doesn't get Ranger as his sub! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks Gary, I'd be honored to have you as my second, but it appears John has made a clean exit from his challenge, though I may go ahead and give it a go and see if I can measure up to his <br /><b>P</b>retty <br /><b>A</b>wful <br /><b>T</b>ime <br /><b>T</b>rial standard. <br /><br />I won't even require the Birthday Bonus. <br /><br />PS - I wonder if we could get Ranger to come out of hiding if we made it a combined challenge? Ranger + Rupp Vs The Chubby Twins...

[[old] John Rupp]

When you do a half marathon above a 90% PATT score let me know and I will celebrate with you.

[[old] gw1]

John,<br />I get tired driving a half marathon! <br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Dec 27 2005, 08:03 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Dec 27 2005, 08:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->John,<br />I get tired driving a half marathon! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Exactly! And anyway, there are no "World Records" for things like the Half Marathon or even the 5k, as far as I know 5 miles, 2500m, and 2000m have been the only official race distances that have existed in Senior Indoor Rowing events.<br /><br />The very strange part about all of this is that John has been creative in his math, and all that needs to be done is to go back to 2003 to see that we both had <br /><b>P</b>retty <br /><b>A</b>wful <br /><b>T</b>ime <br /><b>T</b>rials<br />For the 5k<br />John: 87.69 (19:08)<br />Paul: 92.96 (17:45)<br /><br />It will be fun to see how he manipulates the math to change this to his favor. <br />Perhaps he will introduce the "Bizzarro World Factor".

[[old] John Rupp]

PaulS,<br /><br />You are too bizzarre already, without my help.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 28 2005, 08:14 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 28 2005, 08:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PaulS,<br /><br />You are too bizzarre already, without my help.    <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thank you John, coming from you that means a lot. <br /><br />So how do you feel, now that you know you lost your challenge before you even made it? (Even with your silly PATT manipulations.)

[[old] John Rupp]

PaulS,<br /><br />My time in 2003 was 18:57.4, a <b>90.1 percent PATT score</b>.<br /><br />Your time of 17:45 at age 40 was an <b>81.5 percent</b> PATT score.<br /><br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

No wonder you were afraid to challenge me.

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 28 2005, 11:24 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 28 2005, 11:24 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PaulS,<br /><br />My time in 2003 was 18:57.4, a <b>90.1 percent PATT score</b>.<br /><br />Your time of 17:45 at age 40 was an <b>81.5 percent</b> PATT score. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />How do you figure 81.5%?<br /><br />According to your formula, isn't it PATT = ((86.8/106.5)/.970)? I make that 84.0....

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 28 2005, 08:24 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 28 2005, 08:24 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PaulS,<br /><br />My time in 2003 was 18:57.4, a <b>90.1 percent PATT score</b>.<br /><br />Your time of 17:45 at age 40 was an <b>81.5 percent</b> PATT score. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Really? So you are saying that the time you listed in the C2 Rankings is wrong?<br />"24 John Rupp 56 Santa Maria California USA 5000 19:08.4 " - 2003 Rankings<br /><br />I'm fine with the fact that PB's may not be listed in the rankings personally, but you imply that any time in the rankings is reflective of a "best effort", so it would follow that is how you treat them. Since I get no satisfaction from Erg Time comparisons (No matter how fast I've gone, it's resulted in nothing but insults from people like you.) I rarely row "ranking" distances, simply to avoid the temptation, and subsequent pain in the a55 of dealing with nattering nabobs like yourself.<br /><br />I admit to just using the fastest 5k listed for the 2003 season in my category, and did the same for you.<br /><br />NavHaz has introduced a factor that I was not familiar with (0.97), but also a "14:28.0 5k, (1:26.8 Avg Pace)"?!!?!? <br /><br />Now that really is something!!! Who did that?

[[old] NavigationHazard]

I didn't introduce anything, I just plugged the times into JR's PATT formula per the tables in his signature.<br /><br />Of course no one has done a recognized sub-15 minute 5k, not even Cracknall or Pinsent. For some reason JR figures his PATT percentages for everything less than 30' against the standing 2k world record for the gender/weight class. This is then obscured by conversion factors that appear to me to have been derived from random dice throws, or possibly supplied by some dark angel.<br /><br />As far as I know, the standing 40s HW record for 5k in 2003 was the great Tore Foss' 16:10.9 (done at age 48!). That's 1:37 pace. The 1:46.5 pace of your best reported time that year is 91.1% as fast.<br /><br />As far as I know, the standing 50s LW record for 5k in 2003 was Rod Freed's 16:47.0. That's 1:40.7 pace. The 1:53.7 pace of JR's 18:57.4 is 88.6% as fast.<br /><br />By that standard, you win. True, the likely retort is that Freed's time is suspect.....<br /><br />