Who Could Be A Lightweight

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 24 2005, 03:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 24 2005, 03:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Yes the erg has adjusted away that any performer running on land or rowing on the water must carry her or his weight.<br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John the erg has not adjusted anything anywhere, the erg just is. Who gives a stuff about the differences between ergs or boats, only those who are trying to make a comparison for their own sakes. We are not 'rowing' that is only a term used to try and give some semblance of 'normality' to what we do - which is basically just sit on a seat and go backwards and forwards pulling a handle as hard and fast as we can while some electronic gizmo counts down some meters till it hits zero.<br /><br />We sit on an erg and race each others as equals (before the machine) and while doing that we all face the same challenge and are treated the same way by the machine who makes no adjustment for race, creed, colour, religion, sex, height weight - it just measure GRUNT!!!!<br /><br />AND THE PERSON THAT APPLIES THE MOST GRUNT WINS.<br /><br />The only reason we have classes by age or weight is for two reasons, to make it interesting for spectators (strange people) and those who feel they deserve a tangible reward for 'yanking the chain' - oh and marketing <br /><br /><br />George

[[old] John Rupp]

Hi George,<br /><br />Actually, by it's very design the C2 has adjusted out the effects of weight.<br /><br />Even a boat, since it carries the rower along, provides an assist to heavier rowers that they'd not have were they to carry their own weight. Thus rowing on a boat is much like riding a bicycle on the land.<br /><br />The erg, on the other hand, is more like driving a car. The output depends on how heavy our foot is but doesn't have as much to do with athletic endeavor. Fortunately there "is" more athletic endeavor on an erg, but the comparison is still there.<br /><br />PaulS likes to say he is somehow better than a 105 pound woman just because he weighs more, not even considering gender and age differences. But that is not the case. The erg is generous by factoring weight "out" of the equation. However no one, other than Paul, can say that weight doesn't exist, or that muscles don't weigh anything.<br /><br />We all know better than that.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 23 2005, 06:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 23 2005, 06:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 23 2005, 04:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 23 2005, 04:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the Erg cares nothing about any of our physical peculiarities or differences, it only cares about one thing, how much power we can exchange with the Flywheel to produce a given pace to cover a distance. </td></tr></table><br />Yes the erg has adjusted away that any performer running on land or rowing on the water must carry her or his weight.<br /><br />This makes heavy out of shape coach-type rowers feel good, even though they are producing much less power per weight than those who are lighter and more fit.<br /><br />However, put them in a boat or line them up on the starting line of a foot race then that adjustment quickly disappears.<br /><br />Which is as it should be. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well John, you almost have it right.<br /><br />Firstly, we're not talking about running here so not point in even addressing that issue.<br /><br />Secondly, The Erg pace is directly tied to what the performance of a boat would be, if that boat were a M4-. I.e. A M2- would be slower than the Erg Paces and a M8+ would be faster.<br /><br />Finally, Don't you just hate not being able to keep up with "heavy out of shape coach-type rowers", in spite of claiming to be "lighter and more fit"?

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 23 2005, 07:09 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 23 2005, 07:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi George,<br /><br />Actually, by it's very design the C2 has adjusted out the effects of weight.<br /><br />Even a boat, since it carries the rower along, provides an assist to heavier rowers that they'd not have were they to carry their own weight.  Thus rowing on a boat is much like riding a bicycle on the land.<br /><br />The erg, on the other hand, is more like driving a car.  The output depends on how heavy our foot is but doesn't have as much to do with athletic endeavor.  Fortunately there "is" more athletic endeavor on an erg, but the comparison is still there.<br /><br />PaulS likes to say he is somehow better than a 105 pound woman just because he weighs more, not even considering gender and age differences.  But that is not the case.  The erg is generous by factoring weight "out" of the equation.  However no one, other than Paul, can say that weight doesn't exist, or that muscles don't weigh anything.<br /><br />We all know better than that. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />John, John, John, You are lying about things I have said again, please stop that sort of thing, it hurts you.<br /><br />I've made it quite clear that performance on the Erg does nothing to make anyone "better" than anyone else, it's just a power absorbing device.<br /><br />Now the fact that you call slower speeds "better" than faster speeds, is indeed interesting.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 23 2005, 07:49 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 23 2005, 07:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't you just hate not being able to keep up with "heavy out of shape coach-type rowers", in spite of claiming to be "lighter and more fit"?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />The only way you could "keep up" with me would be by sitting on a sofa and thinking about it.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 23 2005, 07:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 23 2005, 07:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->John, John, John, You are lying about things I have said again[right] </td></tr></table><br />Well then you shouldn't say them again. <br /><br />

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 24 2005, 04:09 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 24 2005, 04:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi George,<br /><br />Actually, by it's very design the C2 has adjusted out the effects of weight.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John not taking something into account is not the same as 'adjusting' it out.<br /><br />Ok maybe you have a point. Show us or point us to a C2 erg that did take weight into account and then the model where the design changed to 'adjust' it out. For something to be adjusted something had to change from what it was previously - happy to have a look at your evidence.<br /><br />George<br /><br />ps PaulS has never said he was 'better' than anyone. Again your twisting of words is 'sad', some are faster, some are slower, neither infers better.<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 23 2005, 08:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 23 2005, 08:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 23 2005, 07:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 23 2005, 07:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->John, John, John, You are lying about things I have said again[right] </td></tr></table><br />Well then you shouldn't say them again. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />So if I don't post, you won't lie about what I have posted? Okey - Dokey....<br /><br />Glad to see you are recognizing your problem.<br /><br />Seek help.

[[old] John Rupp]

PaulS,<br /><br />I recognized your falsities the first day you uttered them.

[[old] george nz]

John you life must be very sad and lonely

[[old] John Rupp]

George,<br /><br />Are you saying Paul doesn't choose to be how he is.

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Dec 25 2005, 09:39 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Dec 25 2005, 09:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->George,<br /><br />Are you saying Paul doesn't choose to be how he is. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I am saying John that despite the attempts by some on this forum in 'gifting' you a set of slides to see if that small act of kindness might in some way stem the flow of bitterness and pettiness that eventually dominates your posts on any threads where you are asked to 'justify' your position with facts .... you are a lost cause.<br /><br />To call yourself a 'Life coach' whose goal is to support and empower people is an insult to the no doubt many people for whom that calling is truly genuine.<br /><br />George<br /><br />ps PaulS can speak for himself, you just choose not to listen

[[old] John Rupp]

George,<br /><br />Don't you think it's better to just be accepting of things as they are.<br /><br />I see no reason to try and justify them with facts.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Secondly, The Erg pace is directly tied to what the performance of a boat would be, if that boat were a M4-. I.e. A M2- would be slower than the Erg Paces and a M8+ would be faster.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Exactly not, Paul.<br /><br />The erg monitor is tied to the performance of an imaginary M4- that discounts the effort needed to carry the weight of the rower/rowers in that M4- by changing that actual figure to some imaginary norm.<br /><br />A team of four 300 lb. rowers that generates X watts on the erg gets the same score as a team of four 150 lb. rowers that generates X watts on the erg. But in the water, the M4- with the four 150 lb. rowers beats the the M4- with the four 300 lbs. rowers going away.<br /><br />BTW, since many exercise machines do indeed adjust for the weight of the exerciser, it seems evident that the erg monitor could be adjusted to do exactly the same thing with distance and pace (holding watts and calories constant, as they are).<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW, since many exercise machines do indeed adjust for the weight of the exerciser, it seems evident that the erg monitor could be adjusted to do exactly the same thing with distance and pace (holding watts and calories constant, as they are).<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Given the growing interest in racing on the erg and in using this racing as a diagnostic for rowing performance, I think it would be great if the erg were adjusted (1) to the time of a 1x and (2) for the weight of the rower. Then (in terms of major physical parameters at least) erg races would resemble rows.<br /><br />At the moment, if the weight of the rower is not considered, the relative positioning of the boats on the electronic screen during an erg race is illusory, a falsification. The erg scores have no necessary correlation to the speed of boats. They are just measures of power. <br /><br />ranger