Who Could Be A Lightweight

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd probably have to do a lot of lower intensity boring exercise to keep the weight down, so generally would be miserable like most lightweights </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not if you got a boat. Doing a lot of low intensity rowing in a boat is great. <br /><br />Take in the scenery, the passing parade, breath that fresh air, feel the breeze, catch some rays, dodge the waves, shower in the spray, smell the trees...<br /><br />Nice!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 22 2005, 08:19 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 22 2005, 08:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd probably have to do a lot of lower intensity boring exercise to keep the weight down, so generally would be miserable like most lightweights </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not if you got a boat. Doing a lot of low intensity rowing in a boat is great. <br /><br />Take in the scenery, the passing parade, breath that fresh air, feel the breeze, catch some rays, dodge the waves, shower in the spray, smell the trees...<br /><br />Nice!<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Pete has been in a boat, and did very well during his first outing, as did his wife. They could make up a formidable mixed 2x if they decided to.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->snip--- In Masters OTW rowing people are only grouped by age. It doesn't matter how much you weight. It should be the same for indoor rowing. ---snip<br /><br />Rockin Roland <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Roland,<br /><br />There is a discussion of the effects of weight on rowing and erging here:<br /><br /><a href='http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ ... l#section1' target='_blank'>http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ ... on1</a><br /><br />The point is that for people with different weights but otherwise similar physiques, more weight means more muscle mass, and the heavier person is able to apply more power but pays very little penalty on the ergometer for the extra weight. In a boat, the heavier rower has to push through more water so the heavier rower pays more of a penalty for the extra weight and muscle mass on the water. The heavier rower still has an advantage in a 2K on the water because so much of that effort is anaerobic. <br /><br />Isn't it amusing how we all find arguments and sources to back up our own interests?<br /><br />Byron

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Dec 22 2005, 08:47 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Dec 22 2005, 08:47 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Isn't it amusing how we all find arguments and sources to back up our own interests?<br /><br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't think that it is "we all" at all (just a noisey minority that sticks around for reasons that I can not imagine), but agree that it is somewhat humorous.<br /><br />Even you are implying that hwts have a disadvantage on the water, but it's "not really a disadvantage". <br /><br />The development of "adjustment factors" is about as Marxist as it gets (Take from those who produce, and give to those who don't). Which has failed at every turn. Of course "ability" can not be taken, so the "adjusters" simply attempt to marginalize (insult) superior ability, a very sad state of affairs, and it shows utter disrespect for others. The nice part about the On water Rowing community is that this sort of thing has never grown a foothold, and likely never will because the whiners won't venture to an arena where they will be exposed as the fraud they are.<br /><br />BTW - I wouldn't group you in with the excuse makers, based on your history of objectiveness, so this last post was seemingly out of character, perhaps you were just illustrating your point?<br /><br />To be clear, my own "Interest" is in producing the best possible raw performance on the water and on the Erg, so I'm not sure of how to argue about that other than say it is defined by covering the given distance in the least amount of time, period.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 22 2005, 09:06 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 22 2005, 09:06 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Even you are implying that hwts have a disadvantage on the water, but it's "not really a disadvantage".  [right] </td></tr></table><br />Other tibbits from PaulS:<br /><br />He claims a 250 pound man and a 105 pound woman have the same advantages on the erg, and that there is no physical difference between them.<br /><br />Muscles don't weigh anything.<br /><br />Rod Freed got injured in college even though quotation from him was that it was 15 years after and at the Long Beach Rowing Association.<br /><br />The slides are slower even though it has been proven many times they are faster.<br /><br />Studies based on heart rates or "feelings" and that are biased are conclusive, and you disregard the actual time trials done by many that prove otherwise.<br /><br />Races and times trials make him tired, so he doesn't do them any more.

[[old] PaulS]

John, you're repeating yourself, again.<br /><br />And what's worse, is that you are repeating your own lies.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi Paul,<br /><br />Rats! You read the posting before I could edit it. I realized right after I wrote it that the comment didn't sound right. I was thinking of my own self-interests and I was confessing that my arguments were based on my own interests. <br /><br />I was thinking of competing with someone who outweighs me by 100 pounds has me at quite an disadvantage on the ergometer, but of course the competition is still fun. <br /><br />I still think some adjustments make sense. We still separate men from women in certain sports.<br /><br />Byron<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] DavidA]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As lightweights are just heavyweights with no brains, why doesn't C2 follow Masters OTW rowing categories. In Masters OTW rowing people are only grouped by age. It doesn't matter how much you weight. It should be the same for indoor rowing. Why draw the line at 75Kg for men and not 65,70,80,85 or something else?<br /><br />In the 2004 Crash B's my 6:15 for 40-49 age group was 7th best. I was and still am 88kg. No one lighter than me achieved a faster time. So if the line was drawn at 90kg I would have been World Champ. It could be argued the same for someone at 79kg, 59kg or any other random weight where no one lighter beats them. But so what. What's the point.<br /><br />Whatever weight cut off C2 make, it's always going to be unfair for somebody. So why not do away with weight categories completely.<br /><br />Rockin Roland <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Is making age groups any better? Why not some other sets of age ranges?<br />For erg racing I think that it just gets more people involved, because more have a chance for fame and glory .<br />There is really one, or two if you want to keep the male and female groups separate, world record and world champion.<br />Most people are not going to have the right build, genetics, mental outlook, etc. to be the best in any particular sport - too bad, enjoy what you are capable of doing and pushing yourself to be able to do. Not everyone can be professional athlete, or a Nobel laureate, a fighter pilot, etc.<br /><br />David<br />

[[old] DavidA]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As lightweights are just heavyweights with no brains, why doesn't C2 follow Masters OTW rowing categories. In Masters OTW rowing people are only grouped by age. It doesn't matter how much you weight. It should be the same for indoor rowing. Why draw the line at 75Kg for men and not 65,70,80,85 or something else?<br /><br />Rockin Roland <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Even if I had a brain I would still be a LW.<br /><br />David<br />

[[old] ehagberg]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Dec 21 2005, 05:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As lightweights are just heavyweights with no brains, why doesn't C2 follow Masters OTW rowing categories. In Masters OTW rowing people are only grouped by age. It doesn't matter how much you weight. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Not true.<br /><br />There are plenty of OTW Masters races where there are separate categories for lwt and open.

[[old] Coach Gus]

Why would I want to lose weight just to be able to erg against slower competition? I want to compete with the strongest and fastest. I'm not going to find them in the LW category. <br /><br />

[[old] onethirtyfive]

<!--QuoteBegin-DavidA+Dec 23 2005, 06:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DavidA @ Dec 23 2005, 06:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For erg racing I think that it just gets more people involved, because more have a chance for fame and glory    .<br /><br />David<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />David this is really I think the crux of the matter. In a small sport like ours creating another division, thus allowing others to achieve success (and we all like that) is good marketing. It is indeed likely to encourage more people to participate and I think most would agree that is great. <br /><br />As a Hwt I dont begrudge any Lwt their moment in the sun, even if they won their division with a slower time than I came fourth in mine, it does not detract from my achievement.<br /><br />The problem is that some take this simple premise of 'spreading the gospel' to try and create a division among sporting 'brothers and women in arms' for their own purposes by implying that one group is in some way better than the other (in a way that has nothing to do with speed). When you sitting on a erg ready to chuck and your chests is heaving because you cant take a breath, then I think really we are all very equal.<br /><br />cheers<br />

[[old] slo_boat]

At one point in my life, when I was measuring such things, I weighed 175 lbs and had 7 percent body fat. That would have given me a lean body weight of 162.75. That was 15 plus years ago.<br /><br />About three years ago, when I was doing a lot of trail running, my weight was once again 175. I don't lift the weights I used to lift, so I imagine that I could have dropped down to 168 or so with some major effort. I don't know what my body fat percentage was, but I was not carrying any extra weight. <br /><br />So the answer is, if I really worked at it, and if I was willing to lose a lot of lean mass as well, then I could be a lightweight, at least for the erg. Being a lightweight in a boat is a whole other issue. <br /><br />However, none of this is evidence that someone who is 6' could be a lightweight, because I am 5' 7". <br /><br />If there was an option to check that says that broad generalizations about physiology and human performance that are supposed to apply to the entire population or even very large heterogeneous subsets of the population are silly, then I would have checked that one.

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why would I want to lose weight just to be able to erg against slower competition? I want to compete with the strongest and fastest. I'm not going to find them in the LW category. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not necessarily true.<br /><br />In the 55-59 age category you might, both in men and women.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] george nz]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Dec 23 2005, 09:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Dec 23 2005, 09:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why would I want to lose weight just to be able to erg against slower competition? I want to compete with the strongest and fastest. I'm not going to find them in the LW category. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Not necessarily true.<br /><br />In the 55-59 age category you might, both in men and women.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />That may be true Ranger, but then the number of participants is also getting significantly smaller and as a generalisation lean body mass (muscle) declines with age.<br /><br />George