Us Indoor Rowing Team Selection

[[old] xdarrylx]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Nov 17 2005, 08:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Nov 17 2005, 08:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />ps NZ home of the 2011 RWC <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It should have went to us (hometown), South Africa! <br />Oh well, see you in NZ in 6yrs!

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin-bmoore+Nov 18 2005, 08:30 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(bmoore @ Nov 18 2005, 08:30 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Rich,<br /><br />It appears that you're beating your head on the wall.  If nothing you've said or done since 2003 has resolved your dispute, then you may want to consider changing your approach.  From what I've read, your athletic abilities clearly qualified you to compete.  Since that's the case, I'd look elsewhere to find what you need to change.  Railing against the system isn't working.  The quote below best expresses an opportunity to change something within yourself to get what you want.<br /><br />"When the...habit finally withers away and the focus becomes one’s work in gratitude and appreciation, the house of complaining airs out and becomes vacant of negativity. At this juncture, you come to realize that there is always plenty of room at the top."<br /><br />This forum gets you into a frenzy on this topic, which seems to be wasted energy.  Continue on this path if you must, but I'd recommend that you let it go.  (When my 2 year old son caught fireflies, he held on too tight, and squished the bugs.  I showed him a gentle touch to keep the bugs alive.  He held the next one just right for about 10 seconds before the 2 year old boyness took over and he squished it.  And then he cried that he wanted another one.  Don't be like him.  Hold your prize with a light touch). <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Yikes, Bill. I agree with Mark on this one (believe it or not). I would guess that C2 will be getting _very_ interested in fairness in the near future. The talk speeds up the process. <br /><br />Business ethics can be a serious matter for a company, as we found out in the scandals associated with the market bubble. <br /><br />Fairness in sports is also a serious issue, as we are finding out with the concern over steroids.<br /><br />These are not things to let go. <br /><br />Rather, I agree with Mark that if C2 doesn't change, it is a company that can easily be "let go" by those who are true sportsmen and would like to keep rowing that way.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sportsmen<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Umm. Bad word.<br /><br />Sportspersons? Sportspeople? Sportsgens?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One way to do this would be to find a sponsor that was a competitor to C2. Now that would be a kick in the pants, ehh? </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br />Now we're talkin'!<br /><br />In my case, I suppose Dennis H. will be the shoe-in pick each year for the USIRT by C2 insiders (and believers in absurdly high altitude adjustments), but if we could set up another sponsored team, I would be happy to take Dennis on.<br /><br />Hey, we could even call the alternative team the United States Indoor Rowing Team, if we got all of the rowers from the United States.<br /><br />C2 could change the name of their team to the C2IRT. <br /><br />Nice idea!<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 18 2005, 08:53 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 18 2005, 08:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One way to do this would be to find a sponsor that was a competitor to C2. Now that would be a kick in the pants, ehh? </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br /><br />Now we're talkin'!<br /><br />In my case, I suppose Dennis H. will be the shoe-in pick each year for the USIRT by C2 insiders (and believers in absurdly high altitude adjustments), but if we could set up another sponsored team, I would be happy to take Dennis on.<br /><br />Hey, we could even call the alternative team the United States Indoor Rowing Team, if we got all of the rowers from the United States.<br /><br />C2 could change the name of their team to the C2IRT. <br /><br />Nice idea!<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ya know, you're a real twit! Perhaps you didn't understand what bmoore was saying. I'll help out. If C2 doesn't want any arseholes on the squad, that is as valid a qualifying criteria as any performance you can muster. (I'm sure you can understand why there is no need to "specify that explicitly".) Since you chose to "not try" instead of modifying the obvious disqualifying characteristc, that was your choice. (I think we "know" eachother well enough for this to be said. I've never expressed a dislike for you and I hope you read this in the spirit is intended. I'd like to see you succeed, and have expressed that from your entry on the Erging forum scene.) Though I'm still waithing for the 80 X 250m @ 2k with 1 minute active rest. "Ergtopek" ? <br /><br />Why this particular post? Because you are insulting another friend of mine, Dennis Hastings, and though he can fight his own battles he's more a gentleman (term used very loosely, so Neither Mike nor Dennis will get too angry with me) than I am. Dennis played by the rules set forth and guess what, he got selected. The Altitude adjustment is C2's thing, not his, and he didn't even go down to the lower altitude of Denver. So you can bitch all you want, but at least keep from insulting others that don't insult you. Otherwise you are JAFW.<br /><br />That said, you are not eligible to compete in the same class as Dennis at the EIRC, so once again, your mention of (swipe at) him, relative to you, is absolutely irrelevant! Much like JR's attempt to compare performances with me, though JR is making much more of a leap, the nature of Bizzarro World occupants. <br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Nov 18 2005, 05:54 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 18 2005, 05:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One way to do this would be to find a sponsor that was a competitor to C2.  Now that would be a kick in the pants, ehh?[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />RowPerfect! <br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-george nz+Nov 17 2005, 04:34 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Nov 17 2005, 04:34 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Face it - you did not even get on the field let alone go to the game[right] </td></tr></table><br /><!--QuoteBegin-Thomas+Nov 17 2005, 05:58 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 17 2005, 05:58 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It is more of a <i>grass fire</i>, bordered by roads and dirt fields, with no apparent damage to people or property and no significant enironmental impact.  Assessed as better to let it burn itself out than to unnecessarily risk personnel. </td></tr></table><br /><br />The field is ablaze. <br />

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dennis played by the rules set forth and guess what, he got selected. </td></tr></table><br /><br />There _are_ no rules for selection. That is just the problem. It's not a contest. It's a "family" show. <br /><br />So be it.<br /><br />But if it is, it doesn't have _anything_ to do with a "United States Indoor Rowing Team" and the like. That is just so much hogwash.<br /><br />It's just a C2IRT. And a sad one at that.<br /><br />It is not willing to reward merit. It is just handing out favors.<br /><br />Again, this could all change. All that C2 would have to do is to state that that their selections are based on merit and not unsubstantiated ad hominem presuppositions, acted upon after the fact. This would make their decision fair and therefore subject to public scrutiny and review. <br /><br />If this is a _sports_ contest, this is a minimal requirement.<br /><br />I am not insulting anyone. I am bringing up the real possibility of forming an alternative team and taking on the USIRT. Nothing insulting about that at all. That is just free and fair competition. <br /><br />It is hard to see how wanting free and fair competition is ungentlemanly.<br /><br />Can you explain?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think we "know" eachother well enough for this to be said. </td></tr></table><br /><br />No, Paul. We don't know each other at all. I have never even met you. <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd like to see you succeed </td></tr></table><br /><br />Neither you nor C2 has anything to do with my "success" as a rower. The only thing that registers my "success" is the time on the monitor (or speed coach).<br /><br />If C2 wants to exclude folks arbitrarily for unsubstantiated reasons from their team, yes, that's their business. But then the USIRT becomes something _very_ different from what they make it out to be. <br /><br />Will C3 now ban people who are not like them in some way and therefore who they don't want to row from logging their times, or participating in the CRASH-Bs, or from being declared winners in races they sponsor?<br /><br />Come on. Admit it. This is pretty wierd stuff, Paul.<br /><br />I am just rowing like everyone else. <br /><br />Whaddup?<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since you chose to "not try" </td></tr></table><br /><br />In 2003, I broke my own world record.<br /><br />If that's not trying, I don't know what is.<br /><br />This discussion is about the public or private nature of the selection process. It is not about what did or did not happen this year. I have never objected at all to what happened this year.<br /><br />I just think this: In order for everyone to _participate_ fruitfully and therefore to make the time and energy expended worthwhile, the process needs to be public and fair.<br /><br />You can't disqualify one of the best three or four (out of 12) 2K trials submitted--arbitrarily, after the fact, and with no explanation. If that can be done, there is no reason to participate.<br /><br />It is _impossible_ to row any better. And without any other explanation, it is impossible to know why quality rowing is not sufficient for selection.<br /><br />Unless specified otherwise, the decision is arbitrary.<br /><br />ranger

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Nov 18 2005, 10:03 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 18 2005, 10:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since you chose to "not try" </td></tr></table><br /><br />In 2003, I broke my own world record.<br /><br />If that's not trying, I don't know what is.<br /><br />Unless specified otherwise, the decision is arbitrary.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />1) Really?!?!?! No?!!? You had the WR?!? How about that! Good Show, now someone took it away (which you can look back and find I told you they would, after 6:30 was finally busted.), and it still gets you a cup o coffee at Starbucks (as long as you toss a fiver to them also)<br /><br />2) So you're wimpering about a 2 year old incident, let it go man!<br /><br />3) It has been specified, perhaps not to the degree you would like, but that's just tough.<br /><br />I don't have to "meet in person" to "know" someone to the extent I was refering. Of course I train people online and often never meet them, but I do get to know them over time through our interactions. Heck, MikeN and I developed and marketed a successful software product (ErgMonitor) before ever meeting in person. I think we only talked once or twice on the phone before finally meeting at CRASH-B's.<br /><br />If the (C2)USIRT was strictly a "family affair" there would be no need to have a USIRDS, they could just go ask the folks at the top of the rankings, who they of course liked, to be on the team. Near as I can tell, that didn't happen, and the only ones bitching about the process are You, John Rupp, and Mike Caviston (sorry Mike, but you did. )<br /><br />Wanting "free and fair competition" is not ungentlemanly, did I say it was? Have you been taking lessons from Mel in "non-contextual misunderstanding", or from John in "willful misquoting"?<br /><br />I'm not quite sure why I felt the need to even address this, apparently I was wrong about being able to get through to you directly.<br /><br />Bub-bye...

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Nov 18 2005, 09:21 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 18 2005, 09:21 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->another friend of mine, Dennis Hastings, and though he can fight his own battles he's more a gentleman (term used very loosely, so Neither Mike nor Dennis will get too angry with me) than I am.  [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Feel the love. <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <img src='http://degiorgi.math.hr/forum/images/smiles/kiss.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br />

[[old] dennish]

Rue the day, yet again in a post I don't read and learn about tangentally. Please do me the courtesy of leaving me out. thanks d.

[[old] dadams]

<!--QuoteBegin-dennish+Nov 18 2005, 09:06 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dennish @ Nov 18 2005, 09:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Rue the day, yet again in a post I don't read and learn about tangentally. Please do me the courtesy of leaving me out. thanks d. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Here here Dennis. Same goes for me.

[[old] John Rupp]

Dwayne,<br /><br />I didn't know you were on the team but then fine, same for me.<br /><br />I'm not going to EIRC this year either!