Us Indoor Rowing Team Selection

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 14th, 2005, 5:12 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 12 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You fail to realize that this is NOT a "national team" ... it's essentially a "Concept 2 Team" </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What does USIRT stand for? [right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 02:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You still haven't answered my question!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />This one is even funnier!!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 14th, 2005, 5:59 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 14 2005, 01:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 12 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You fail to realize that this is NOT a "national team" ... it's essentially a "Concept 2 Team" </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What does USIRT stand for? [right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 02:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You still haven't answered my question!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />This one is even funnier!!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's pretty easy to find, at least for 2004.<br /><img src='http://www.concept2.com/media/usirteamlogo_2004.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />Perhaps it's simply US (Us/C2) Indoor Rowing Team for 2005. Not very good grammar, but so what?

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 14th, 2005, 7:09 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 14 2005, 05:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 14 2005, 01:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 12 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You fail to realize that this is NOT a "national team" ... it's essentially a "Concept 2 Team" </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What does USIRT stand for? [right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 02:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You still haven't answered my question!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />This one is even funnier!!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's pretty easy to find, at least for 2004.<br /><img src='http://www.concept2.com/media/usirteamlogo_2004.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />Perhaps it's simply US (Us/C2) Indoor Rowing Team for 2005. Not very good grammar, but so what? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ohhh noooo, Paul, you fell for it. Now John will say that it WAS the selection of a "National Team" -- simply because of the name. <br /><br />(You must have had a few to few Wheaties this morning my friend, to fall into such a trap.)<br /><br />You should also realize, though, that John believes everything he reads in the newspaper, and everything he sees on TV. So, take solice in that ...<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 14th, 2005, 7:31 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 14 2005, 03:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ohhh noooo, Paul, you fell for it. Now John will say that it WAS the selection of a "National Team" -- simply because of the name.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hey Mark,<br /><br />Probably quite a few others "fell for it" too eh! <br />

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 14th, 2005, 7:58 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 14 2005, 07:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 14 2005, 03:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ohhh noooo, Paul, you fell for it. Now John will say that it WAS the selection of a "National Team" -- simply because of the name.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hey Mark,<br /><br />Probably quite a few others "fell for it" too eh! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John:<br /><br />Actually, I very much doubt that.<br /><br /> <br /><br />-- Mark

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » November 14th, 2005, 8:02 pm

No I dont think so John. At the end of the day it is a reasonably small community and those who are members would know the situation.<br /><br />I think to make it into something it is not is more misleading than the name.<br /><br />George<br /><br />ps Everything is learning experience and so I am sure that C2 will learn from this to and make changes in the future.

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 14th, 2005, 8:33 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 14 2005, 03:09 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 14 2005, 05:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 14 2005, 01:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 12 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You fail to realize that this is NOT a "national team" ... it's essentially a "Concept 2 Team" </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>What does USIRT stand for? [right] </td></tr></table><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 12 2005, 02:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>You still haven't answered my question!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />This one is even funnier!!! <img src='http://www.d2ksoft.com/blog/images/smiles/whistle.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's pretty easy to find, at least for 2004.<br /><img src='http://www.concept2.com/media/usirteamlogo_2004.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />Perhaps it's simply US (Us/C2) Indoor Rowing Team for 2005. Not very good grammar, but so what? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ohhh noooo, Paul, you fell for it. Now John will say that it WAS the selection of a "National Team" -- simply because of the name. <br /><br />(You must have had a few to few Wheaties this morning my friend, to fall into such a trap.)<br /><br />You should also realize, though, that John believes everything he reads in the newspaper, and everything he sees on TV. So, take solice in that ... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Oh, I don't know.<br /><br />US Airways is not a National Company in the same sense.<br />US Magazine - no problem there<br />US Bank - same<br />US News - same<br /><br />The team is being put together in the US and will be traveling from the US to the EU, all being paid for by a Company that pays taxes in the US. Seems good enough reasoning to call the team the US Indoor Rowing Team, to me.<br /><br />And then in the end, if John really thinks that all USA national team members in any sport are selected based on strictly objective criteria then I guess he's got a lot to learn. We could start with anything to do with Figure Skating, and progress to the less obvious, but doing so at this point would be a waste of time. Scorpions sting, whiners whine, water's wet, and the sky's blue..... <br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 14th, 2005, 8:35 pm

Rightttttt Mark and George,<br /><br />No one else really thought United States Indoor Rowing Team really meant United States Indoor Rowing Team!

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » November 14th, 2005, 8:48 pm

No John, everyone knew what the letters stood for, but most people (not all I admit) knew that it was not a national team selected by a national body.<br /><br />John, is there a national body whose name C2 have usurped here? I was not aware of one.<br /><br />I would also concur that I doubt that there is a team that is ever picked on purely objective criteria. For instance in your own Olympic selection process where in athletics the first 3 in the trials are automatically chosen (I think I am right in that) - they then become part of a squad not a team as they compete as individuals (most relay teams are not necessarily the 4 fastest runners but those who work well together), but I bet your hockey or basketball etc teams are based on a mixture of subjective and objective criteria - ability and fit.<br /><br />George

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » November 14th, 2005, 8:52 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 14 2005, 08:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Rightttttt Mark and George,<br /><br />No one else really thought United States Indoor Rowing Team really meant United States Indoor Rowing Team! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No John, what we (I) meant was that nobody else was foolish enough to fall for some silly baloney logic that just because something is called "National" that this means that the organization is somehow representing the US as some kind of team selected by some national organization like the USOC, or some other not-for-profit governing body of sports. And, you know this, so you're just playing "silly bugger" with us.<br /><br />John, you really should knock this crap off. Any reasonable new rower looking at this site would think that we're a bunch of morons based on your posts. But, then again, you probably have no real interest in supporting or enhancing this sport.

[old] george nz · Post by **[old] george nz** » November 14th, 2005, 11:15 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 15 2005, 01:52 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>John, you really should knock this crap off. Any reasonable new rower looking at this site would think that we're a bunch of morons based on your posts. But, then again, you probably have no real interest in supporting or enhancing this sport. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Made me stop and think this comment, and thats because it is very very true! <br /><br />In fact it made me realise how important it is not to get into these discussions as they fuel the fires of stupidity as we can see, but man it is hard sometimes to stand back and watch people like J & R mess up a beautiful thing.<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.<br />—Edmund Burke (1729-1797) </td></tr></table><br /><br />Tks Mark I guess we all need to be cogniscent of the effect our posts may have on newcomers.<br /><br />regds George

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 15th, 2005, 3:57 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Everything is learning experience and so I am sure that C2 will learn from this to and make changes in the future. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Glad you agree, George.<br /><br />This is all that is needed, really. <br /><br />I hope C2 is listening.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 15th, 2005, 4:28 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The fact that you held the WR, the fact that you were winning your division by umpteen seconds - the fact that your qualifying time was super fast - even the fact that you are king of "zatopeks" - has nothing to do with TEAM SELECTION.<br />Any committee for any sport requires TEAM MEMBERS who compliment each other. Who give support, rally together, mix well, and don't conflict. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, I agree with your assessment of C2's decision in 2003. It didn't have anything to do with the trials. It was ad hominem. <br /><br />If this is their policy, then so it goes. The team selection is not an athletic contest. Erging is not a team sport.<br /><br />Discussions on these internet lines are vitual not actual and have been heated in both directions. Ideas about training and performance are debated. This is just conversation. Hot air. If C2 is going to include or exclude applicants for the USIRT on the basis of how these conversations go, I am more than a bit amazed, both in this choice and how this might be (fairly and effectively) done. If this is C2's policy, I guess I would like to see a set of guidelines about this as well. What might they be? Don't use too many smiley faces or exclamation points? Always praise the C2 manual (or the Wolverine Plan)? Always agree with the training advice of Mike Caviston and John Rupp? Yikes! These are scarey things to consider.<br /><br />My contiinuing comments on the USIRT issue have not at all been directed at USIRT members, etc.. They have been directed at C2's selection policy. It appears that you agree with me entirely on this issue. Team selection is not necessarily based on the 2K trials. The best 2K trials can be excluded, after the fact, for unstated personal, rather than athletic, reasons. <br /><br />If C2 would like to make application for the team an athletic contest that depends on the quality of the trials rowed, they only need to say this: "Team selection will be based on the relative quality of the 2K trials, as determined by the coaches and/or selectional committee."<br /><br />Especially in athletics, it is difficult to know how to "win" something if the winning doesn't depend on the relative merits of the athletic performances. <br /><br />The USIRT application process takes considerable time and effort. If--arbitrarily, without warning, and after the fact--C2 can exclude the best trial rows for unstated, unsubstantiated, ad hominem reasons, it is indeed difficult to know whether it is worth the effort to try out. <br /><br />I thought that "black-listing" and other sorts of ideological prejudices went out of fashion long ago, with the civil rights legislation of the last cenetury and the political and ideological tensions of the cold war!<br /><br />ranger<br /><br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 15th, 2005, 4:41 am

Sorry. But no. <br /><br />I don't think that the members of the USIRT should have to agree about how to train in order to be on the team and row well. <br /><br />In fact, I think one of the pleasures of being on the team would be just this--being in close contact with others who, for strong and substantiated reasons, passionately disagree about how to train for rowing. <br /><br />Being on the USIRT and conversing face-to-face over an extended period with other USIRT members would be a wonderful opportunity to experience a rich cross-fertilization of ideas about training for rowing, one might make us all better in the end.<br /><br />Disagreement is both productive and fun. Agreement is usually an unproductive bore.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 15th, 2005, 4:47 am

Being an English professor, I am very familiar with political correctness.<br /><br />But _rowing_ correctness?<br /><br />Yikes!<br /><br />What next?<br /><br />ranger

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