Altitude And Air Resistance

[[old] Canoeist]

It is hard to believe this thread is up to 16 pages! I stopped reading after the third page, but dropped by at page 16 to see if anything changed. Not much! So, here is something to think about. Hot air is less dense than cold air. This means that the chain is easier to pull when someone is blowing hot air. Should politicians that erg be required to check a box in the rankings stating that their PB was performed in the presence of hot air?<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />Paul Flack

[[old] Swerve]

I've popped by to make my first post here purely to say this.<br /><br />John, you are completely clueless and are rapidly becoming the laughing stock of the Web. Well, one of them, anyway. 17 pages of this tells me there's no point in repeating why you're wrong, but you are. You are not a visionary.<br /><br />Now please, please take a moment out and allow the possibility of your fallibility to enter your mind. You'll feel much better for it.<br /><br />Mind you, I admire your persistence.

[[old] gw1]

Stop it!<br />Let the horse rest in peace!<br />

[[old] Swerve]

Oh cr@p! Three weeks decomposing! I thought I could smell something......<br /><br />I'll get my coat.<br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Persistence wafts gently through the most obtuse and obscure crevices when guided by the vision of truthfulness.

[[old] John Rupp]

The wafting of attitude about altitude.

[[old] GutBustin']

Just wondering if some industrious High School Student rower could set this up as a Science Fair Exhibit. Hypothesis - Lower Air Pressure, despite being compensated for by Drag Factor, does increase speed. <br /><br />What's required - putting the erg fan in some sort of box where air pressure can be manipulated<br />Pulling device - this would be hard to come up with, but something like putting a paint mixer on its side with the handle in the middle (obviously not ideal)<br /><br />

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-GutBustin'+Aug 30 2005, 01:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(GutBustin' @ Aug 30 2005, 01:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just wondering if some industrious High School Student rower could set this up as a Science Fair Exhibit. Hypothesis - Lower Air Pressure, despite being compensated for by Drag Factor, does increase speed. <br /><br />What's required - putting the erg fan in some sort of box where air pressure can be manipulated<br />Pulling device - this would be hard to come up with, but something like putting a paint mixer on its side with the handle in the middle (obviously not ideal) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's actually trivial to come up with a pulling device that will allow you to put the whole erg in a low-pressure box. All you'd need is a variable-speed high-torque electric motor and a reciprocating-to-straight-line linkage along the lines of:<br /><br /><img src='http://www.aircompressor.org/img/techno ... ressor.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />Replace the piston in this drawing with the erg chain and you'll get back-and-forth motion.<br /><br />Add an interrupt so that you're only supplying power on the drive (i.e. 1/2 a crankshaft or flywheel rotation) and you're in business....

[[old] GutBustin']

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Aug 30 2005, 03:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Aug 30 2005, 03:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-GutBustin'+Aug 30 2005, 01:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(GutBustin' @ Aug 30 2005, 01:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just wondering if some industrious High School Student rower could set this up as a Science Fair Exhibit. Hypothesis - Lower Air Pressure, despite being compensated for by Drag Factor, does increase speed. <br /><br />What's required - putting the erg fan in some sort of box where air pressure can be manipulated<br />Pulling device - this would be hard to come up with, but something like putting a paint mixer on its side with the handle in the middle (obviously not ideal) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's actually trivial to come up with a pulling device that will allow you to put the whole erg in a low-pressure box. All you'd need is a variable-speed high-torque electric motor and a reciprocating-to-straight-line linkage along the lines of:<br /><br /><img src='http://www.aircompressor.org/img/techno ... ressor.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br /><br />Replace the piston in this drawing with the erg chain and you'll get back-and-forth motion.<br /><br />Add an interrupt so that you're only supplying power on the drive (i.e. 1/2 a crankshaft or flywheel rotation) and you're in business.... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />This reminds me of when trying to do crossword puzzles. The answer is obvious once someone tells you it. The "of course" moment. <br />Anyway, that was very cool to post that. Thanks,<br />GB

[[old] John Rupp]

I have run a flat 2 mile time trial all out at 2500 feet and then ran a hilly half marathon in a race starting at 5500 feet climbing the first half then back down. The half marathon was a faster pace, even though many more hills and the distance more than 6 times as far! This was with running, where of course lower elevations are faster. The race conditions would have a lot to do with the half marathon being faster. The same for the erg.<br /><br />Anyone racing on an erg in Boston where the competition is so much more intense should of course get a faster time than in a low key time trial at the mile high sprints.<br /><br />I have continued to observe some other relevant postings about elevation on this forum.<br /><br />Dennis Hastings for example, did a 20 minute row (or 5k) at low rating and 7000 feet altitude that was almost as fast as his PB over the last 3 years unrestricted! By the way, isn't Evergreen at 7040 feet? I've seen Dennis post about 5 times that it's 7700 feet.<br /><br />Then we have Spengler who rowed the 20 minutes at 4000 feet that was faster than his 2k PB. Then he keeps posting that sea level is faster. Doesn't make much sense does it.<br /><br />What we have there is more of the altitude fear and hysteria that, however, is not backed up by results. These rowers are simply holding back at altitude either from fear, lack of competition, or else just easing off and not going as hard as they could.<br /><br />There is absolutely no reason why someone should be able to row for 20 minutes faster than their 2k PB at altitude, and then saying that altitude is harder for a 2k.<br /><br />Check out the other postings on this thread and you will see that a 2k time at altitude is much the same as at sea level and quite possibly faster.

[[old] Bayko]

On October 12th afolpe posted the following advice regarding John Rupp as a Troll:<br /><br /><i>I think I fell into the trap of thinking that just because the troll occasionally posts a coherent idea, that he was a reasonable sort of person whose ideas it might be interesting to at least hear once. Obviously, this is incorrect. As I look at the last couple of posts that our resident troll has tried to malaciously hijack, the thing that really stands out in retrospect is how the most senior members of this board appear to have instantly recognized this behavior for what it was, and not even responded. This is exactly what the author of the troll piece recommends doing, and a piece of advice that I think we should all try hard to follow. <br /><br />Laying this out as simply as possible: <b>We should all make a concerted effort to </b><b>avoid responding to anything John Rupp posts.</b> Hopefully he will get the message and go annoy another group of people.<br /><br />Andrew</i><br /><br />It is still good advice today.<br /><br />Rick

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Oct 29 2005, 12:31 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Bayko @ Oct 29 2005, 12:31 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><i>"Next time you are on a message board and you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, simply write a follow-up message entitled "Troll Alert" and type only this:<br /><br />The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.<br /><br />By posting such a message, you let the troll know that you know what he is, and that you are not going to get dragged into his twisted little hobby."</i>[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />"Troll Alert" -- Bayko!

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Oct 28 2005, 09:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Oct 28 2005, 09:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Dennis Hastings for example, did a 20 minute row (or 5k) at low rating and 7000 feet altitude that was almost as fast as his PB over the last 3 years unrestricted!  By the way, isn't Evergreen at 7040 feet?  I've seen Dennis post about 5 times that it's 7700 feet.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Evergreen CO is roughly 130 sq. miles of mountain terrain, and not flat. I believe downtown officially is something like 7014 feet above sea level and that some parts of the municipality may be as high as 9000 feet.<br /><br />Dennis might be able to supply an altimeter reading and triangulation coordinates, if asked. Alternatively, we could accept that he knows how Rocky Mountain High he actually is.<br />