How Important Is Technique On The Erg?

[old] H_2O · Post by **[old] H_2O** » June 23rd, 2005, 1:57 am

I second all the calls for lower drag. I would do it step by step and it takes a little time to get used to it. Your times are already very good and they will become much faster. Glad you are not in my age group. How long have you been rowing already?

[old] Pete Marston · Post by **[old] Pete Marston** » June 23rd, 2005, 4:24 am

I row everything at 130 drag now, having started out racing at 165, and then used 135 for the past 3 seasons or so. It took a little while to make the change for me from 165 to 135, and my times suffered a bit at the time, but then my distance times started to tumble, and of course the short distance times followed. Once you get in the groove at lower drags you can put in a huge amount of power to the handle, and for anything over a flat out sprint it will not affect the splits you can pull, or the rates you pull them at.

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » June 23rd, 2005, 5:44 pm

GoodC, Actually, rowing at 200 or 120 df does not give you automatically more or less strength or muscular bulk. As PaulS wrote somewhere, the erg has no inherent resistance; it is an isokinetic exercise, where the resistance is proportional to the strength you are able to apply. This also answers your first question: to be able to apply strength at any df you need technique: more precisely,a sort of neuro-muscular leverage system, slowly developed, that allows you to extract great resistance from the flywheel with a low df. AM

[old] GoodC · Post by **[old] GoodC** » June 23rd, 2005, 6:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(remador @ Jun 23 2005, 10:44 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>GoodC, Actually, rowing at 200 or 120 df does not give you automatically more or less strength or muscular bulk. As PaulS wrote somewhere, the erg has no inherent resistance; it is an isokinetic exercise, where the resistance is proportional to the strength you are able to apply. This also answers your first question: to be able to apply strength at any df you need technique: more precisely,a sort of neuro-muscular leverage system, slowly developed, that allows you to extract great resistance from the flywheel with a low df. AM </td></tr></table> Mmmhm….., ...guess I have to think about this first, before I’m gonna tell you, you’re right or wrong, ok? I admit, somehow this has some clear aspects though…

[old] GoodC · Post by **[old] GoodC** » June 23rd, 2005, 6:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(H_2O @ Jun 23 2005, 06:57 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I second all the calls for lower drag. I would do it step by step and it takes a little time to get used to it. Your times are already very good and they will become much faster. Glad you are not in my age group. How long have you been rowing already? </td></tr></table> I made my first experiences on a concept2 maybe 2 years ago. For about 1 ½ half years I’ve been doing this quite intensively… But as it seems it was wrong that I’ve never tried out low settings so far… Surly I’ll try to get used to it… Thanks for motivating me!

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » June 23rd, 2005, 6:10 pm

GoodC, Go ahead! Hope you get the stroke that works better for you! AM

[old] GoodC · Post by **[old] GoodC** » June 23rd, 2005, 6:13 pm

Byron Drachman,Jun 23 2005, 02:42 AM wrote: 
Would it make sense to buy Xenos latest DVDs for example?
 I've found them extremely helpful. They're a lot of fun, and I find it helps me to try to imitate Xeno and Xeno or Lucas during the workouts (except for the hilarious spots when Lucas shows you bad technique.) Great! Thanks Byron for that feedback! You convinced me - I'm gonna place my order!

[old] GoodC · Post by **[old] GoodC** » June 23rd, 2005, 6:23 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(remador @ Jun 23 2005, 11:10 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>GoodC, Go ahead! Hope you get the stroke that works better for you! AM </td></tr></table> Sure! Good C is a cowboy who starts to like this rodeo machine called c2!

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » June 24th, 2005, 1:15 am

Hi everyone, Indoor Rowing Technique: In my opinion, as long as no one gets hurt, it does not matter how you row. Staying free of injury is the primary goal. "Good" technique helps you have a more efficient and enables you to take more powerful strokes. Thank you for the compliments about the DVDs. XENO

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » June 24th, 2005, 9:28 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(ranger @ Jun 22 2005, 03:02 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Perhaps Dwayne Adams can get on the line here and fill you in about these things. When Dwayne switched from rowing at max drag to rowing at 120 df. (and training at 110 df.), his 2K time dropped 16 seconds! Big deal, you say. Well. Dwayne is 40 years old, (what?) 6'4", 225 lbs., a former power lifter, not a little girlish character at all, and does, to sample his times, 5:47 for 2K and 2:27 for the marathon. Not bad for an old fart. It appears that Dwayne learned to row. You should, too. ranger </td></tr></table> Listen to Ranger on this one. He's right. I started out using a huge df (no coaching - self taught). I then got a chance to meet some rowers (not ergers) - Olympians, ex-Olympians, National Team Head Coaches, etc. And everyone of them said the same thing. LOWER THE DRAG!!! Remember that the basic concept on the erg in to keep that flywheel spinning as fast as you can. If you have a higher df that won't happen. It'll take some getting use to, but in the end you'll improve dramatically. And Ranger....thanks for the 'old fart' comment. Dwayne

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » June 25th, 2005, 4:55 pm

Hi I cannot be efficient in racing if I row at a lower damper setting than six. This has always been the case. The lower the drag the more I spin my wheels. Maybe if I trained a lot at low drag I would improve. XENO

[old] NavigationHazard · Post by **[old] NavigationHazard** » June 25th, 2005, 6:09 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Xeno @ Jun 25 2005, 03:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi I cannot be efficient in racing if I row at a lower damper setting than six. This has always been the case. The lower the drag the more I spin my wheels. Maybe if I trained a lot at low drag I would improve. XENO </td></tr></table> Xeno, if you don't mind, how does the erg feel for you at that drag factor/damper setting as compared to OTW stroking? Do you try to erg at settings that mimic the feel of your single? Or is there a difference?

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » June 25th, 2005, 11:29 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Jun 25 2005, 05:09 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Xeno @ Jun 25 2005, 03:55 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Hi I cannot be efficient in racing if I row at a lower damper setting than six. This has always been the case. The lower the drag the more I spin my wheels. Maybe if I trained a lot at low drag I would improve. XENO </td></tr></table> Xeno, if you don't mind, how does the erg feel for you at that drag factor/damper setting as compared to OTW stroking? Do you try to erg at settings that mimic the feel of your single? Or is there a difference? </td></tr></table> Rowing the single scull successfully requires that you overcome your own "dead weight." I guess you can draw a direct comparison to the load in the single scull to what you would want the drag to be on the ergo. I never was a sprinter. Instead, I always was faster with a heavier gearing in the single scull.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 26th, 2005, 6:41 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Listen to Ranger on this one. He's right. I started out using a huge df (no coaching - self taught). I then got a chance to meet some rowers (not ergers) - Olympians, ex-Olympians, National Team Head Coaches, etc. And everyone of them said the same thing. LOWER THE DRAG!!! Remember that the basic concept on the erg in to keep that flywheel spinning as fast as you can. If you have a higher df that won't happen. It'll take some getting use to, but in the end you'll improve dramatically. And Ranger....thanks for the 'old fart' comment. Dwayne </td></tr></table> Dwayne-- Cheers. I am now rowing at 95 df. Heaven. My times are going to tumble. It varies from distance to distance, but on the average, I think I am getting just about what you got by changing from max drag to low drag: 4 seconds per 500. It is going to take a lot of training to realize these gains in full, but when all is said and done, if I have some luck and give it my all, I think I might get these reductions in my times from learning to row on low drag: FM: 1:54 to 1:48 HM: 1:49 to 1:45 60min: 1:48 to 1:44 10K: 1:47 to 1:43 5K: 1:43 to 1:30 2K: 1:37 to 1:34 If I go 1:34 for 2K, it could create a bit of a stir. I am pretty old and light to be rowing 6:16. ranger

[old] GoodC · Post by **[old] GoodC** » June 26th, 2005, 6:43 pm

Thanks for all your feedbacks and helpful advices…! After all I’ve heard now, I’ll definitely try to get used to lower settings… (It hasn’t to be damper setting 1 or 2 though… ) Nevertheless, as far as I understood most of you experienced guys train at low settings, but slightly set higher for competitions anyway…, is this correct? It would be very interesting for me to know at which damper settings (or df) exactly you cracks are doing your competitions. (or is this a secret?!) Xeno for example says: “I cannot be efficient in racing if I row at a lower damper setting than six” Does this mean that you did your great 2k 5:53 probably at an even higher setting than 6? (This “5:53” by the way, were the reason why I actually came into this competition stuff; I once saw this time in a newspaper – guess you mentioned it in connection with your preparation for Athens…However, it was great motivation for me to see how “close” I can get…!) Of course I would be also very interested in Dwayns competition settings…

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