Help me improve my 30 minute distance

[Hanzo]

I’ve tried to keep in shape for most of my life, mostly true martial arts, jogging and biking. 6 years ago I permanently busted up my Achilles heels from starting of my day with jogging uphill with a 1 year old in a baby stroller. My dad recommended me a rowing machine to keep in shape, and I started of on a Kettler coach, then upgraded to the Concept2 in December of last year. I really enjoy it, and I love how I can get a full body workout from just one small machine, and I don’t even have to face the hard climate of the Norwegian winters when I exercise.

My stubby body is not made for rowing, I’m 1,69 meter with a weight of 75 kilo’s. Overall I’m not fare of from where I want to be, but I have not really noticed much or any improvement in my rowing since I got the machine. My dad managed to get a impressive 7440 meters in 30 minute at a age of 60, same stubby body as me and a few extra kilo’s. I figured at 38 years of age I would row circle around my dad, but so far I’m left high and dry. My personal best is just over 7300 meters, and a normal rowing session leave me just over 7000 meters. I do exercise every other day, normally 10 or 20 minutes on a bike, then 20 or 30 minutes on the rowing machine for a total of 40 minutes. Once a week I try to do some upper body work with a resistance band, mostly muscles the rowing machine don’t exercise.

When rowing, I normally keep my pulse around 165 to 175, max I have seen on the erg is 195 when I did my first and only 2k (ended up with 7:38). I typically just end up pressing “just row”, then keep a somewhat steady flow true out the session. I’m sure that’s fare from the most optimal way of approaching this, and after realizing I’m getting close to no progress I guess it’s time to seek help. Overall I’m happy with my shape and body, but I would like to see a small improvement and honestly I wish to row 7500+ meters in 30 minutes.

There is a lot of information on improving your 2k time, but past that it seems harder to get a guide or good advice. Where should I start of, doing interval training, work harder, longer sessions? I hope somebody out there can help push me in the right direction and help my get my training more efficient.

[Bob S.]

You say nothing about technique. It can make a whopping difference. Check out videos and get coaching if you can. Optimal rowing technique is not intuitive.

Bob S.

[lindsayh]

I'm with Bob - first get the technique right, then second thing is work on the technique!
Then do kms - some 30' stuff but maybe try 3 or 4x 10'/2' or 3' rest at 2:00 pace so aiming at 7500 over 30' and then gradually lose the rests.

[Hanzo]

Thanks for the feedback, I' 100% sure my technique could do with alot of improvments, but it's also the hardest thing to work in with no feedback or coaching. Maybe I should try filming myself and take a good look. I have seen quite a few videos on the topic, but it's hard to judge my own technique from just rowing. Fare as I know there is no coaching in my area, so I'm depending on feedback from this forums. I hope I can also get some advice on training smarter, I'm guessing just rowing in a steady pace 3 times a week is fare from optimal?

Attached a couple of logs from my rowing if that gives some additional feedback

[jamesg]

You're doing pretty well, albeit at high ratings which are not unexpected, given your height. Have a look at the C2 log rankings.

Technique on the erg means mostly stroke length, because the longer the stroke, so long as we don't get into a weak catch posture, the less hard we have to pull for the same power output. Rowing serves to move boats, and the distance the boat goes depends on how far the handle goes. Pulling hard is not a substitute for length, and too hard is a killer.

Length is favored by using a recovery sequence with hands away, swing forward, then lift the knees, as shown in the C2 technique videos. The cardinal erg crime (against yourself) is lifting your knees before hands away, but once you get that better sequence taped and smooth you'll go like a rocket.

On ergs there is also some slack at the catch, so pulling short strokes is further penalized, you have to pull proportionately more of them. In any case using our full extension is good for us.

Your tables show you are using high rates for 30 minutes, ok for a time trial but lousy for training. Endurance training does not need high rates, on the contrary.

Your Watt/Rating ratio is 6 to 7, the same as me at age 74, tho' height 6'2. Eight should be easily doable (200W at 25) at your age and size, as endurance work, and will offer you the training needed to go faster; but, if and only if backed up by technique and length.

Minimum exercise for OAPs like me is 3 hours a week with HR well up; which I think of as UT1. You should do at least the same.

[Hanzo]

I just finished a 30 minute session now, and pulling as low as 25 feels very odd to me. When rowing at 25, do I have a very fast and strong pull, followed up with a short pause in the end before I start with the recovery, or should it all be one flowing motion? My normal SPM rate of 30-33 means I'm always in a steady movement, the drive and the recovery is almost in the same pace. I guess I should watch the technique videos again, and possible film myself to get a better understanding on what I'm doing.

So lower my SPM to 25, try to pull 200W. Any advice on what heart rate I should try to stay on to build endurance?

Thanks for all the feedback, it's greatly appreciated!

[jamesg]

HR band UT1 is 70-80% of HR range (rest rate to max rate). So if you have say 55 rest rate and max 195, range is 140, and UT1 band is from 150 to 165 (rounding).

There are various programs that also show training bands, under training-interactive here: http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/

No need to stop at the release, just keep moving. There's no need to hurry to the next stroke, it'll be very hard work and boats don't stop anyway.

[Bob S.]

I just finished a 30 minute session now, and pulling as low as 25 feels very odd to me. When rowing at 25, do I have a very fast and strong pull, followed up with a short pause in the end before I start with the recovery, or should it all be one flowing motion? My normal SPM rate of 30-33 means I'm always in a steady movement, the drive and the recovery is almost in the same pace. I guess I should watch the technique videos again, and possible film myself to get a better understanding on what I'm doing.

So lower my SPM to 25, try to pull 200W. Any advice on what heart rate I should try to stay on to build endurance?

Thanks for all the feedback, it's greatly appreciated!

No pauses, please. The drive is hard and quick, lasting 0.7 +/- 0.2 seconds. The hands should move out quickly and smoothly, past the knees before the knees start to rise. The rest of the recovery, torso swing and knee rise, is slow and relaxed as you creep up on the catch. The recovery time can range from 1 second (at 40spm and up) to over 5 seconds (at 10spm).

Bob S.

[Carl Watts]

Pretty high heartrates for that pace and rating and I would suggest slowing the pace and keeping the HR lower and try to drop the rating and improve your fitness.

Obviously cannot compare your results to mine but I'm ten years older and 33min at 2:02 pace at only 18-19spm has an average HR for me in the high 150's and thats high compared to my mates that are down the 140's at an even faster pace.

You will find you can drop your rating over time, when I started out everything was at 27-28spm which was too high for 1:55 pace and 20 minutes of that had me collapsing on the floor.

You have to work on dropping the rating its the only way your going to get faster because you cannot continue to rate up from your current position to try and increase the pace.

[hjs]

I just finished a 30 minute session now, and pulling as low as 25 feels very odd to me. When rowing at 25, do I have a very fast and strong pull, followed up with a short pause in the end before I start with the recovery, or should it all be one flowing motion? My normal SPM rate of 30-33 means I'm always in a steady movement, the drive and the recovery is almost in the same pace. I guess I should watch the technique videos again, and possible film myself to get a better understanding on what I'm doing.

So lower my SPM to 25, try to pull 200W. Any advice on what heart rate I should try to stay on to build endurance?

Thanks for all the feedback, it's greatly appreciated!

Lowering the rating will make you stronger, but not perse faster. You should not aim at a certain speed, that is the outcome.
To get a better stroke rowing strapless will help. That way you can,t rush the recovery.

Given your height weight ratio, you proberly have a to gain by changing your diet. Being overweight slowes you down.

In the longer run its mostly doing enough work and having and ok stroke. There is nothing magic about erging, its mostly getting the meters in.

[Hanzo]

You will find you can drop your rating over time, when I started out everything was at 27-28spm which was too high for 1:55 pace and 20 minutes of that had me collapsing on the floor.

You have to work on dropping the rating its the only way your going to get faster because you cannot continue to rate up from your current position to try and increase the pace.

This goes to show how little I actually know about this, I was expecting feedback to me row more and work harder, not lowering my HR. I have to admit, after 30 minutes of rowing with a pulse of 175+ I'm pretty out of it. It will take some getting use to lowering my rate, but I absolutely see the benefits. Also I dont think there's any way around a video of myself, I can't judge my own technique while on the rower.

Is a 30 or 40 minute rowing session with a HR in the 150-165 range considered a fair exersice, or is it to short to actually amount to anything?

[hjs]

You will find you can drop your rating over time, when I started out everything was at 27-28spm which was too high for 1:55 pace and 20 minutes of that had me collapsing on the floor.

You have to work on dropping the rating its the only way your going to get faster because you cannot continue to rate up from your current position to try and increase the pace.

This goes to show how little I actually know about this, I was expecting feedback to me row more and work harder, not lowering my HR. I have to admit, after 30 minutes of rowing with a pulse of 175+ I'm pretty out of it. It will take some getting use to lowering my rate, but I absolutely see the benefits. Also I dont think there's any way around a video of myself, I can't judge my own technique while on the rower.

Is a 30 or 40 minute rowing session with a HR in the 150-165 range considered a fair exersice, or is it to short to actually amount to anything?

Hf in itself says nothing. Its whst you based on you rest and max Hf. Using 70% of that number as a max sva good way to build your base fitness. Going much harder will make it less aerobicly and that is mot needed.

Say your rest is 60, max is 180. Your hf range is 120. 70% of that is 84, so this gives 84 plus rest (60) is 144 as upperlimit for 70%. Over time as you get fitter you will row faster with the same hf. That is if the conditions are alike. Heat, form of the day etc influence it ofcourse, but over time you will get faster.
Keep most of your sessions at this hf cap. If you do a test ignore hf and just row as fast as you can.
Over time you restpulse will lower, and possibly you max also a bit, but mostly your rest pulse. This is also a sigh of better heart function.

[Carl Watts]

Yes drop the HR, stuff in the 180's is not "Training", training is very different and it may feel easy for the first week but then the second gets harder and it takes a month to really kick in. If you feeling like you can then sustain that for a year you have picked the right sort of pace/hr to carry on with. 30 minutes is good but your also better off building towards 40 minutes. You can get some really good performance gains to start with and that keeps you motivated.

If you want to find your training band then you need your resting HR and go all out to find your maximum then use this.

http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/conten ... /hr-bands/

[Hanzo]

Thanks alot for all your insightfull feedback people, I really appriate it. I will check my resting HR, not sure about that but I'm pretty sure my max is 195 or just above. I used the calculator to check my HR band, should my weekly rutine include a mix of HR1, HR2 and AT sessions, one type session for each day? I will try to push my totalt rutine to 60 minutt with 40 of those on the rower, should be alot more doable also if I'm not going at it with HR of 180!

[jamesg]

Endurance training (such as your 40 minutes) doesn't need more than about 75% of HR range. Low drag (120-130) will help you get a long stroke with plenty of work in it.