Sprint Finishes

[[old] Rogus]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jun 6 2004, 08:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (John Rupp @ Jun 6 2004, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> However, extending yourself through the distance comes from extending the sprint through the entirely of the distance, and not just at the last few meters at the ending. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> What??????<br><br>So, now you're sprinting the whole race? Then that's really just your pace and you have no sprint finish. What you've written doesn't make sense John.

[[old] Rogus]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jun 6 2004, 08:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (John Rupp @ Jun 6 2004, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...the so called sprint finishes of dropping the pace substantially, are only relevant when the pace has been lagging. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> That's what makes watching a track race so exciting. The strategy of the even paced runner trying to burn out the kicker by pushing the pace during the whole run. The kicker knows if they are close at the end and have anything left, they've got the win by using their sprint to pass the leaders at the end of the race. Erg races would be more exciting to watch if there was more of that same excitement.

[[old] GeorgeD]

Just to jump in between you and John here Rogus , I tend to think that John is inadvertantly bringing in something that I had not intended in the conversation.<br><br>What we are talking about here is a 'sprint' at the end of what is essentially a time trial as that is how I see erg racing. It is not a race of tactics (I know I know someone will find an example but essentially I am right), there are very very few of us that just race a 2k to just win by a 'nose', we go as fast as we can as often we are sometimes not racing directly against our main protaganists or there may be two heats etc.<br><br>We do not race in a pack, we do not surge or slipstream in attempt to gain a tactical advantage; we know what we are attempting to achieve and set our pace accordingly.<br><br>To make a comment on the marathon sprint I would only imagine you would be able to ramp it up over the last 4k if you had kept something in reserve and then surely it is going to make limited difference to your overall time .... just to much to claw back. Not having ever rowed that far even in my dreams I am not in the best position to comment but I would have thought that if you had done the preparation you would have settled into a pace early that you were confident you could hold through to the finish and if you struck one of those days when you felt 'on top of your game' then you may look to gradually negative split. A sprint of even 4k would indicate a misjudgement of your pace or ability

[[old] eurofoot13]

the thing with sprinting is that it applies to different body types. If you have a high level of aerobic fitness, but have a low AnT, then a sprint benefits you - you can motor along just below your anaerobic threshold, then the last 300m - blow yourself all out - but had you started at the avrage finishing pace which would have been above your anaerobic threshold, you would have died, and not finished well. <br><br>Conversely, if someone has a very high lactate threshold, and clears lactate away well, but after passing that, loses power very quickly, a sprint doesn't work well. flat splitting, or negative splitting works best, because if they sprinted, they would quickly accumulate lactate, and lose power for lthe last 100-200 meters. <br><br>This is often why more experienced rowers prefer a flat split pace. they have ahd more time to build up the base aerobic and VO2max conditioning that lends itself to the flat split strategy. However, for some people, their body type, of how they train leans them towards a sprint finish, no matter what.<br><br>me, I prefer a sprint to bring me back down to average pace because I am usually strong in the first and last 500 of a race. so for erg tests I usually do -2 / 0 / +2 / 0 seconds off my target pace for 2000m. Oftentimes, If have underestimated myself, the last 500 is faster than target pace, or the other way around. However, for me this is the strategy that works best. That's what it's really all about.

[[old] eurofoot13]

<!--QuoteBegin-Rogus+Jun 7 2004, 02:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (Rogus @ Jun 7 2004, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Erg races would be more exciting to watch if there was more of that same excitement. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>hmmm... ever been on the water? It's the same thing. Crews have strong middle thousands, but no sprint, crews rabbit, crews lag until the sprint, it's great, and it's so exciting.

[[old] John Rupp]

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br>So, now you're sprinting the whole race?  Then that's really just your pace and you have no sprint finish.  What you've written doesn't make sense John.<br><br><!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>No.... there you go again.... <br><br>I said you are extending -- meaning utilizing -- your sprint through the entirety of the race, not sprinting the whole race.<br><br>There's a distinction, and a difference.

[[old] John Rupp]

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The kicker knows if they are close at the end and have anything left, they've got the win by using their sprint to pass the leaders at the end of the race.  <br><br><!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>Again, that's only when the pace has been lagging.<br><br>Haile Gebreselassie can sprint the last lap of a 10000m race in 53 seconds, when the pace has been lagging. In his record runs, however, the last 200 meter sprint can take 30.5 seconds, as he's been applying that sprint -- MORE EFFECTIVELY -- to the entirety of the distance.<br><br>Thus the result is a faster time.<br><br>It was asserted earlier that a sprint is around 300 meters.<br><br>However, if that's the case, what does the time/pace have to do with it?<br><br>One rower might drop the pace by 10 seconds the last 300m. Another might be all out holding the same pace as before.<br><br>Both rowers are "sprinting" the last 300 meters!<br><br>However, the second rower has more effectively utilized that sprint energy, earlier, in applying it to the entirety of her or his race.

[[old] John Rupp]

Sarah Ulmer:<br><br>"I need to go in there and be relaxed, even a bit too chilled, and then go hard. That's what it's all about. You've just got to give it everything. What more can you do? There's nothing else you can do. Just go hard. It's that simple."

[[old] GeorgeD]

Shes a legend and a 'babe', and young enough to be my daughter ...dam

[[old] Rogus]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Jun 7 2004, 10:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (John Rupp @ Jun 7 2004, 10:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...utilizing -- your sprint through the entirety of the race, not sprinting the whole race.<br><br>There's a distinction, and a difference. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>OK John, I got you...you're sprinting through the whole race, but you're not sprinting the whole race. See when you explain it properly it makes perfect sense. Oops, there I go again.

[[old] Cran]

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the thing with sprinting is that it applies to different body types. If you have a high level of aerobic fitness, but have a low AnT, then a sprint benefits you - you can motor along just below your anaerobic threshold, then the last 300m - blow yourself all out - but had you started at the avrage finishing pace which would have been above your anaerobic threshold, you would have died, and not finished well.<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>That'd be me then <br><br>There is no way I can do my pb average for a whole 2k... I have tried... just can't do it...<br><br>I've tried doing weights to improve anaerobic and strength, but it put me over the lightweight limit so I can't do weights, I do do 90 mins + of cardio most days though so my aerobic fitness is fairly good.

[[old] John Rupp]

Ethiopian Kenenisa Bekele broke the men's 10,000 metres world record at the Grand Prix meeting in Ostrava today.<br><br>The 21-year-old timed 26 mins 20.32 secs to break compatriot Haile Gebrselassie's mark set in 1998 of 26:22.75 sec and confirm that he has indeed taken his legendary countryman's mantle as the dominant distance runner.

[[old] kamdo]

Here's a visual for the group...sprinting is Dave Wottle in the final 200-300 meters of an 800 meters race as in the Munich Olympics. Remember that stirring race? Unbelievable! Absolute all out guts. It was also Jim Ryun in the final 200 of a mile race. A slow buildup over the past 2-3 laps of a 5 - 10 K is just that...a deliberate attempt to drop the pack so that a sprint finish is not needed.<br><br>Kevin

[[old] Bayko]

kamdo,<br><br>I do indeed remember the Wottle race. I believe that he was in last place for the first 600m and won by a nose as the Russian guy (Arzanov) dove at the line but came up 0.03 second short. BUT, I also seem to remember that when the splits were checked it turned out that Wottle's 200m splits were essentially equal for all four segments. His "sprint" was really more a matter of the other seven guys slowing down while he maintained.<br><br>Rick

[[old] Rogus]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bayko+Jun 9 2004, 09:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (Bayko @ Jun 9 2004, 09:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ...Wottle's 200m splits were essentially equal for all four segments. His "sprint" was really more a matter of the other seven guys slowing down while he maintained.<br><br> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> If correct, this is a good example of what I was talking about earlier. Wottle wasn't sprinting as his pace stayed the same. It just looked like it in comparison as his competition slowed down/died.<br><br>In erg races, what looks like a sprint might just be an increase in stroke rate while the pace stays the same or even slows down. You look like you're going faster, sprinting, as your stroke rate goes up, but you're not. Some might describe this as sprinting. I call it trying, maybe desperately, to hold on to pace. When I'm talking sprint, I mean one involving a change in pace not stroke rate.<br><br>