July 20' R24 Test

[[old] NavigationHazard]

I'm not sure exactly what we're expected to do by way of test protocol, i.e. do we need witnesses/log card, but....<br /><br />I just did the 20' r24 piece suggested by Coach Teti as a benchmark test and thought I'd share the experience:<br /><br />1000m 3:29.94<br />2000m 3:30.04<br />3000m 3:30.08<br />4000m 3:30.12<br />5000m 3:28.72<br /> <u> 725.3m 2:31.10</u> <br />5725.3m 20:00.00 <br /><br />1:44.80 pace @ 24.03 spm, 12.655 spi. Drive/recovery ratio averaged 1:2.33, average drive length 144.1 cm, drag factor 134.1. I didn't wear my heart monitor so I don't have that data. <br /><br />I've been doing a lot of UT2 work on the erg at 20 spm, and a good deal of OTW sculling at low rates as well. Thus I found it quite difficult psychologically to do this test -- harder mentally than it turned out to be physically (not that it wasn't tough on the body too). I'm interested to know whether any of you at similar stages in your training come away with the same feeling. I'm also interested in hearing what you thought about (if anything) during the test itself. I found myself 'zoning out' with about 8 mins to go and counting down strokes in units of 12 (i.e. every 30 secs). You can always do another 12 strokes, right? <br /><br />I have no good way of knowing whether my result is good, bad, or indifferent at this point in terms of my training for the indoor racing season. My initial guess was that our 500m pace for this test should be at roughly 80% of a 2k test's watts, in which case I'm looking at a 6:30 2k. But after having done the thing, I'm not so sure. I felt like this test took more out of me than did a 6:34.5 2k six weeks ago (qualifying for this Squad), and based on some other interval work I've done I feel I already ought to be in the mid-6:20s. Maybe one of the coaches can elaborate?!<br /><br />In any event, once I'm finished drifting slowly down the course at the Quaker City Sprints in Philly on Saturday I hope to go back to endurance training. One of the things I've been trying to do is drop excess fat, to improve my VO2max. I've managed to shed about 22 lbs since May 31 and (like my beloved Cubs most years) count on further losses as the summer wears on....<br /><br />Here's hoping everyone else has good and productive tests

[[old] kjgress]

Hello: I read your note about your thoughts on the test piece. I have a feeling that I am going to have a similiar experience since I have been doing mostly long slow both on and off the water. <br /><br />I have a question about some of your info: How did you figure your ratio and the average distance per stroke? Is it on the PM3 somewhere, calculated or did you use an auxillary program that you hooked up to?<br /><br />Thanks, Karen Gress

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-kjgress+Jul 30 2005, 07:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(kjgress @ Jul 30 2005, 07:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello:  I read your note about your thoughts on the test piece.  I have a feeling that I am going to have a similiar experience since I have been doing mostly long slow both on and off the water.  <br /><br />I have a question about some of your info:  How did you figure your ratio and the average distance per stroke?  Is it on the PM3 somewhere, calculated or did you use an auxillary program that you hooked up to?<br /><br />Thanks,  Karen Gress <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have a PM2 hooked up to Paul Smith's ErgMonitor program, which I run on a laptop next to the erg. If you split the signal cable you can run both the PM2 monitor and the ErgMonitor simultaneously.<br /><br />Among the data ErgMonitor can track are drive length (individual stroke as well as average) and drive/recovery ratio (individual stroke as well as average). The former measure is especially useful for me because I have a tendency to short-slide my drives at low rates. When I do that I don't get my legs fully extended. As for drive/recovery ratio, I find it a good way of helping me think about not rushing the slide on my recovery. Both measures are also extremely handy as coaching tools, I think, because you can get people in multiple-rower boats erging to some of the same essential stroke specs.<br /><br />None of this helps much (yet) on the water, where I am WAY more dangerous to delicate spectator sensibilities and race schedules and buoys, floating debris and bridge abutments than I am to regatta records. But it will, I keep telling myself <br /><br />I have no idea whether the PM3 allows you to track this data or not. Maybe one of the C2 technical gurus can weigh in?! FWIW I hope to upgrade to a PM3 this fall, maybe as a birthday present <br /><br />Maybe too one or both coaches can offer more general opinions on erging in ways that complement OTW rowing, and vice versa. My personal feeling is that if you're doing things properly from a biomechanical standpoint, erging and OTW rowing should go together seamlessly. But as we all know, it's possible to do things on an erg -- yanking the chain up to your chin, for example -- that can get you a better monitor split -- at least temporarily -- while probably ejecting you from any shell that ever floated and/or unduly stressing your body biomechanically. Thus I keep trying to build a relationship between good erging strokes and good OTW stroking. Such as I do of either, of course However I realize that there are many who don't row OTW and simply erg (e.g. me, up until 2004). Perhaps their approach ought to be different?!

[[old] bcb]

20 min test results:<br /><br />5814 meters (1:43.2 avg)...24 spm...avg hr 168..damper on 5 (clueless on drag factor so any help or suggestions are appreciated!)<br /><br />Prior to the developmental squad workouts a great majority of my efforts were 2-3 30 min pieces per week at 27/28 spm. I am still adjusting to the slower cadence longer workouts. I was not sure how to pace myself today but did end up rowing the first 4 splits at a fairly consistent rate. I picked it up a bit on the last one. <br /><br />Like Jonathan I am not sure what to make of this result. Should there be some rough correlation between the avg split here vs. a 2K split (after an arbitrary adjustment for the slower spm in this piece?) Thx in advance for any thoughts or comments.<br /> Brian

[[old] mag]

I also found it difficult to hit the SR with a reasonable split. OTW we are practicing for Masters' Nationals and so are rowing at a 36-38 - high and light. Dropping down to a 24 was nearly impossible. Also, the 20 minutes was tough psychologically since we are currently racing 1K and 2K pieces. I think the upcoming head season will be more compatible with the DevSquad workouts.<br /><br />Mag

[[old] PeterD]

I did my 20 min last week but am just now commenting. It looks like my score was some type of an omen... 5555 meters. I just hope it is a good omen. <br /><br />That is 1:48.0 average pace. Not used to the low SPM and had to concentrate to keep it at 24. I am looking at this a a base line from which to improve!<br /><br />Peter<br />

[[old] jim mcgoldrick]

Worked my way through the July 20 minute test at 24 SPM yesterday. Felt very strong early on, but at 10 minutes was at 92% Max. heart rate. Finished just over 95% MHR.<br /><br />Avg. 1:47.9 and 5557 meters (yes, I did see Peter D's result prior to testing. We retired discus throwers have a lot in common).<br /><br />Pleased with the result. Compares well with my 2004 5K PB of 1:45.3 (27/28), and 2004 10K PB of 1:49.8 (26).<br /><br />Jim McGoldrick

[[old] dennish]

OK, so if the goldbrick McGoldrick can pony up his results, I guess I can come in as well. By the way Jim any success on getting to lightweight? Been doing a lot of water rowing lately at World Masters games so the erg was out of mind for a about a week, even though they had a tent with about a dozen set up for everyone to use. (I sat down a time or two, but made sure Paul S wasn't around to see). So only back on the erg seriously for about a week. The rate wasn't too difficult to mainatin, I've been doing a lot of strapless rowing at 25/26 with Paul's program for months, the pace was however another story. And then we can talk altitude as well, I did the piece at my health club at about 7800ft. Lets see, do I have all my excuses lined up. 5597, just under 1:48. Most of it was in the 48/49 range with lapses to 50 with a too fast start and a demented finish to try and get 6k.

[[old] jim mcgoldrick]

Dennish says"Most of it was in the 48/49 range with lapses to 50 with a too fast start and a demented finish to try and get 6k."<br /><br />Hey "skinny", didn't you get the message to rate this piece at 24? Rating 48/49 is a bit over the top, even for a skinny, eh?<br /><br />As for the Chief becoming a skinny--well I weigh 75% of what I did in 1998. Does that make me a lightweight, relatively speaking?<br /><br />Good training, and all the best to you my friend.<br /><br />Chief

[[old] Mike Caviston]

I was traveling from July 9-25 and unable to erg, which but a crimp in my training. Spent the last week or so getting back on track and figuring out a baseline from which to proceed. I did the 20’ piece this morning. Sorry to be negative, but I personally found it to be a waste of a training session. The workout isn’t like anything else in my training plan, so it didn’t serve any particular purpose for me. Don’t know what predictive or diagnostic power it’s supposed to have. And it left me flat for my afternoon workout, which was less productive than I had hoped. But since we were asked to do the piece and write about it…<br /><br />I had a vague plan of starting at a 1:46 pace and seeing if I could bring it down to 1:45 by the end. It took me about a dozen strokes to settle into the exact rate and split combination I wanted. Holding 24spm is pretty simple, but my usual pace at that rate for a long continuous piece would be 1:52-1:50, so it took a few strokes to get locked onto 1:46. Things went pretty smoothly until about 8’ to go, and I had to mentally buckle down pretty hard at that point to keep the pace from drifting up. No chance of getting down to 1:45 flat, but I still had a little kick with 2’ left. My meters/pace by 2’ increments:<br /><br />2’: 567 meters (1:45.8 pace)<br />4’: 567 (1:45.8)<br />6’: 568 (1:45.6)<br />8’: 567 (1:45.8)<br />10’: 569 (1:45.4)<br />12’: 568 (1:45.6)<br />14’: 569 (1:45.4)<br />16’: 569 (1:45.4)<br />18’: 569 (1:45.4)<br />20’: 574 (1:44.5)<br />Total: 5687 meters (1:45.5)<br /><br />So there it is, FWIW.<br /><br />Mike Caviston<br />

[[old] Indoor Racer]

I'm not rowing with you Big Dog's, but hey, I'm a lightweight! Today's test piece went like this:<br /><br />4012 meters @ 20:00.0<br /><br />Paul Randall<br />The Ancient One

[[old] NavigationHazard]

<!--QuoteBegin-Indoor Racer+Aug 4 2005, 09:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Indoor Racer @ Aug 4 2005, 09:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not rowing with you Big Dog's, but hey, I'm a lightweight!  Today's test piece went like this:<br /><br />4012 meters @ 20:00.0<br /><br />Paul Randall<br />The Ancient One <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Isn't it the size of the fight in the dog that counts, not the size of the dog in the fight? I say that as one of the bigger dogs, physically ....<br /><br />I for one am in awe of you -- pulling chain with the rest of us, at 88 1/2. <br /><br />When I meet you, will you autograph a picture I can post at my boat club? <br /><br />You are truly an inspiration and a half. Keep it up!!!

[[old] dadams]

<!--QuoteBegin-NavigationHazard+Aug 5 2005, 08:49 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NavigationHazard @ Aug 5 2005, 08:49 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Indoor Racer+Aug 4 2005, 09:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Indoor Racer @ Aug 4 2005, 09:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm not rowing with you Big Dog's, but hey, I'm a lightweight!  Today's test piece went like this:<br /><br />4012 meters @ 20:00.0<br /><br />Paul Randall<br />The Ancient One <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Isn't it the size of the fight in the dog that counts, not the size of the dog in the fight? I say that as one of the bigger dogs, physically ....<br /><br />I for one am in awe of you -- pulling chain with the rest of us, at 88 1/2. <br /><br />When I meet you, will you autograph a picture I can post at my boat club? <br /><br />You are truly an inspiration and a half. Keep it up!!! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Holy Cow!!! Didn't know you were that experienced in years either. Outstanding!!!! Definetly an inspiration.<br /><br />Dwayne

[[old] rower419]

Just got around to doing my 20 min R24 test piece. I was racing all last week at the Canadian Henley so I did not have a chance to do it earlier, then took a few days off cause I raced 6 times at Henley.<br /><br />I found this piece to be extremely hard and frustrating. I've been doing 2k's at a R34 so holding a good split at a 24 for 20 mins was very hard. I also found it hard to motivate myself for the 20 mins when I've been so used to having a coxswain motivate me for 2ks that last a little over 7 mins. I was struggling so much during the piece and would get very frustrated when I found my split rising and couldn’t get it down to the split I had aimed for. <br /><br />I ended up pulling 4411 meters. My average split was 2:16. I pulled a 2:08 for most of the piece but every time my split went up for a while my average would go up. I'm disappointed with myself but look forward to being able to pull a better piece in the future when I'm used to longer pieces. My on the water summer season is over now and I'm ready to begin erging regularly and doing some long pieces.<br />

[[old] kheflin]

I was doing a bikeride around lake Michigan (5 days, 400 miles) until a few days ago, and I had been gone for 10 days so I did a few days for 40 minute steady states and lifting and the like to get back into crew shape. Then, it was already into August, so I figured I'd just do my August test because I'm going on another darn 3 week vacation in a few days. Sooo, in essence, here's my test piece for July/August, at 26spm:<br />4894 meters, the average split of 2:02.6. <br />It's really not good at all, but as I said I'm still getting in shape, but considering my 4K PR is at at 1:56 pace, I've clearly still got some ground to cover in my regaining erg fitness.