Strapless Rowing

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-15kaday+Jun 1 2005, 10:05 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 1 2005, 10:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />Keep the drag around 120-125 because any higher can hurt your back. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Do not assume that you can avoid hurting your back simply by staying below 120-125 df.<br /><br />Good technique, control, posture and back/core muscles will help avoid problems. Poor technique, lack of control or weak back/core muscles will all contribute to hurting your back regardless of the df.<br /><br />If you are not convinced then try this simple test.<br /><br />Set df to 180. Move to catch. Adopt slouch position with well rounded back and relax completely. Jerk chain back as hard and as far as possible with no leg movement but retaining relaxed, rounded slouch. Grade back pain on scale of 1-5. <br /><br />After 4 weeks, or later if full recovery takes longer, repeat exercise but with df 100. Grade back pain again and compare with first test.<br /><br />Repeat as often as necessary until message sinks in <br /><br />Neil

[[old] Cran]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and I can really feel more work in my triceps </td></tr></table>

[[old] shu246]

this is most strange! 35 spm??? i cannot imagine rowing without foot straps. <br /><br />i row at 20 strokes per minute, +/- 1. at the catch, heels come up and sometimes touch the front of the seat (careful to keep elbows from passing forward of thighs to avoid curling the back too much). i then fall back and hang from bar, bringing in leg action as the back uncurls. at the end of the power stroke, with arms popping the bar into the navel, i am well laid back and feet are usually pulling on the straps. in any event, recovery begins with pulling up on the footstraps as in a sit-up.<br /><br />were i not strapped in at the feet, i would surely fly backward off the seat at the end of the power stroke.<br /><br />how do you folks do it?

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-shu246+Jun 22 2005, 04:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(shu246 @ Jun 22 2005, 04:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->how do you folks do it? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />NOT like this.... <br /><img src='http://mrweb.com/altrower/arower1.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[[old] whp4]

<!--QuoteBegin-shu246+Jun 22 2005, 12:35 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(shu246 @ Jun 22 2005, 12:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this is most strange!  35 spm???  i cannot imagine rowing without foot straps.  <br /><br />i row at 20 strokes per minute, +/- 1.  at the catch, heels come up and sometimes touch the front of the seat (careful to keep elbows from passing forward of thighs to avoid curling the back too much).  i then fall back and hang from bar, bringing in leg action as the back uncurls.  at the end of the power stroke, with arms popping the bar into the navel, i am well laid back and feet are usually pulling on the straps.  in any event, recovery begins with pulling up on the footstraps as in a sit-up.<br /><br />were i not strapped in at the feet, i would surely fly backward off the seat at the end of the power stroke.<br /><br />how do you folks do it? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If your arms are applying enough force to the handle at the end of the drive, you won't go off the back. If the straps are pulling on your feet at the end of the drive, then you haven't gotten all the energy into the flywheel that you might have with the right motions. From the catch, the legs provide the initial power, then the opening of the back, and finally the arms. On the recovery, the sequence goes in reverse. It feels a little strange at first to do without the straps, but it does seem to be beneficial if you stick with it. Below a stroke rate of 30 they really shouldn't be needed.<br /><br />Bill<br />

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-shu246+Jun 22 2005, 07:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(shu246 @ Jun 22 2005, 07:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />how do you folks do it? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />By not falling back and hanging off the bar before the leg drive!<br /><br />If you might fly off the back at the end of the stroke then you are just wasting energy and effort. <br /><br />Correct the technique first and the use strapless to help develop it.<br /><br />Neil

[[old] shu246]

WHOA! Just put a new bungee and chain on my 1988 model B. All these years never had taken up any slack in that bungee. Big difference! Strapless rowing is possible, but it now feels like pulling into a 15 knot wind.<br /><br />Agreed, that form (heels up to touch front of seat at the catch, fall back and hang, ending well laid back off the rail) is not suitable for a sprint. It might be non-suitable at all on the water (i have not yet had the pleasure). But it does seem to make a good cruise gait for my long boned body on the C2.<br /><br />-shu

[[old] PeteVu]

Hi, im also new to concept rowing and i want to do strapless rowing to fix my HORRIBLE technique, but how do u do it??? Do u anchor your heels into those hooks to slowly pull yourself up? After reading this forum i know im doing things wrong because i feel alot of pressure from the straps on my recovery, but i still dont understand how to do a recovery without anything to pull yourself back...

[[old] Chris Howard]

Just did my fifth row strapless (I hated the first one - very alien)<br /><br />Started rowing more frequently in Novemeberlast year and have been averaging 4x 10k a week (some times a little more). Was regularly in the 40 minute mark, although I was not really looking for a good time, just a good workout.<br /><br />However I was averaging around 26-30 SPM (gradually speeding up through the 10k).<br /><br />Having read this thread I thought I would try strapless to try improve my technique, slow down and focus on putting power into my legs.<br /><br />Well it seems to work. 24SPM is now a manageable speed and I just did 10k PB in 39:09 without much trouble - should be able to hit mid 38 if I try.<br /><br />Bottom line - strapless seems to do the trick.

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-PeteVu+Jul 12 2005, 09:45 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PeteVu @ Jul 12 2005, 09:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi, im  also new to concept rowing and i want to do strapless rowing to fix my HORRIBLE technique, but how do u do it???  Do u anchor your heels into those hooks to slowly pull yourself up?  After reading this forum i know im doing things wrong because i feel alot of pressure from the straps on my recovery, but i still dont understand how to do a recovery without anything to pull yourself back... <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As a novice strapless rower, I can only suggest you start at a really slow pace and light pressure. As you feel comfortable, start to pull harder (more pressure), not so much more SPMs. If your form is proper, you'll have no problem doing a smooth stroke that, as I saw this morning for myself on my third strapless row, feels very "round" and "smooth". You'll almost feel like the return slide is "automatic", since it pretty much is due to the incline of the slide.<br /><br />I'm a new rower (first week of May '05) so I'm no pro. This worked for me, and I'm slowly gaining speed while still feeling comfortable as I do the 2K strapless pieces in addition to longer strapped rows. Soon, I'll switch the mix.<br /><br />Regards, and good luck with this, let us know how it goes!<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] michaelb]

I honestly couldn't row strapless when I first tried it either. So I gave up and rowed "straps loose" for 6 months or a year before trying again. After I was used to rowing with loose straps, the adjustment to strapless was fairly easy. So you may want to try that as a transition step.<br /><br />Any momentum that you have in your body at the end of the stroke that is being absorbed by the straps in order to avoid falling off the back, is being wasted and is not being used to pull the handle. So the idea of rowing strapless is to develop the balance that allows you to put all of your energy into the handle and none into the straps. Although more subtle and subject to at least some debate, you also shouldn't generally use the straps to pull yourself up the slide either; you want to allow the handle to do that while you rotate on your hips and bring your body forward in balance. It does work, even if it may seem impossible.<br /><br />I think all or most of us use the straps for racing shorter distances like the 2k (I haven't decided about using the straps, particularly tight straps, for longer races like the 10k).

[[old] PeteVu]

i see, ill give that a try tomorrow morning! Ive just slammed myself on the concept 2 at my gym recently and i realize that i really have to focus on my form. Thank god for this forum ^^

[[old] Shepherd]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chris Howard+Jul 12 2005, 09:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chris Howard @ Jul 12 2005, 09:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well it seems to work. 24SPM is now a manageable speed and I just did 10k PB in 39:09 without much trouble - should be able to hit mid 38 if I try.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yeah, it took me five or six sessions to get a feel for it. <br /><br />I still can't beat my "strapped" PB, and my strapless PB was this morning... 40:37. I think I hate you. <br /><br />- Matt

[[old] PeteVu]

wow! strapless seems to be working! I'd like to throw out what i discovered about my form to you guys to see if what im doing is right...<br /><br />I can't lean back as nearly as far<br />I feel more muscle strain and burn as opposed to more "out of breath"<br />i have to put more emphasis on my legs in acceleration, and wait till my legs are 90% extended before i engage my arms.<br /><br />The only problems i have is that if i try to row with a lower damper speed less than 6, i have a tendency to fall off my foot pads.<br /><br />I can already feel the difference. I used to go at 33spm and wear myself out after 2k, but now i can EASILY polish off a 2k in the same time at 23spm, and still have plenty of energy to lift weights etc. I know my time will increase because my feet still came loose a few times durring my strapless 2k.

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-PeteVu+Jul 14 2005, 06:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PeteVu @ Jul 14 2005, 06:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wow!  strapless seems to be working!  I'd like to throw out what i discovered about my form to you guys to see if what im doing is right...<br /><br />I can't lean back as nearly as far<br />I feel more muscle strain and burn as opposed to more "out of breath"<br />i have to put more emphasis on my legs in acceleration, and wait till my legs are 90% extended before i engage my arms.<br /><br />The only problems i have is that if i try to row with a lower damper speed less than 6,  i have a tendency to fall off my foot pads.<br /><br />I can already feel the difference.  I used to go at 33spm and wear myself out after 2k, but now i can EASILY polish off a 2k in the same time at 23spm, and still have plenty of energy to lift weights etc.  I know my time will increase because my feet still came loose a few times durring my strapless 2k. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sounds like it is working.<br /><br />Lean back point is difficult without knowing/seeing how much you did/do now. <br /><br />Muscles will be working harder if you are pulling same splits with lower spm.<br /><br />More use of legs is good - strong and efficient hence why you are not so worn out.<br /><br />You should be able to reduce the damper over time as you get more used to it.<br /><br />So, as you become more comfortable with same power output but at 23 not 33 spm and develop a strong efficient stroke you can strap back in and increase the spm with same stroke and same power per stroke and then see the 2k time start to tumble.<br /><br />It is so good to train.....<br /><br />Neil<br />