Strapless Rowing

[old] Shepherd · Post by **[old] Shepherd** » May 14th, 2005, 9:09 am

I figured it might be of use to record some newbie's impressions of strapless rowing, spinning off from very good suggestions on the SPM thread. <br /><br />I was rowing at about 32 SPM "naturally." As I now understand it (and I'm probably oversimplifying), there are two ways to go "fast" on the Concept2:<br /><br />1. Have a lot of power per stroke, so each pull generates more watts through more effort, or<br />2. Have a lot of speed back and forth on the slide, which keeps the fan spinning quickly and generates more "speed" for less effort. <br /><br />Obviously, working on (1) is preferable, because good form and a strong stroke is better than just moving back and forth very quickly without expending as much effort. <br /><br />It was recommended by a few people that I row strapless, because with straps I tended to "haul" myself back up the slide, artificially speeding up my return and diminishing the power of my stroke. So I gave it a shot. <br /><br />At first, I didn't like it much at all. It didn't feel like as much of a workout, I was much slower (wounding my ginger pride), and I missed the ab work of being able to really lean back supported by the straps and pull myself up with my stomach. <br /><br />After a few sessions, though, I'm warming to it. I can now maintain a 24-25 stroke rate (a huge step down from my usual 32), and I can really feel more work in my triceps. I still don't feel like my legs are getting as much work as they were before -- I feel like slow-stroke rowing is more upper-body intensive, while fast-stroke rowing puts more emphasis on your legs. That's just my impression, though. <br /><br />I can definitely pay more attention to my stroke, and my form is definitely improving. In just a few sessions, I've dropped my strapless pace from 2:10/500 to 2:05/500, which is great. If I can start rivalling my old speeds strapless, with a stroke rate of 24, I can only imagine how nice it'll be when I "kick off" with straps and occasional 32-SPM sprints. <br /><br />When I learned as a boy to cross-country ski, my instructor, a venerable septuagenarian, insisted that we all learn to ski without poles for several days before we started poling. I can see how this is exactly the same thing -- you should attempt to get good basic skills before you start using the 'crutch,' to keep the crutch from impeding real progress.<br /><br />Old news for the old guard, I know, but I figured new users might like to read this. I'm a convert.

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » May 14th, 2005, 12:02 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Shepherd @ May 14 2005, 08:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I still don't feel like my legs are getting as much work as they were before -- I feel like slow-stroke rowing is more upper-body intensive, while fast-stroke rowing puts more emphasis on your legs. That's just my impression, though. <br /><br />Old news for the old guard, I know, but I figured new users might like to read this. I'm a convert. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Shepherd,<br /><br />Nice summary. Are you the same Shepherd who held the view that withut strps you would fly off the back of the erg <br /><br />Slow stroke rowing strapless can put just as much emphasis on the legs; trust me.<br /><br />I suspect that until you become fully comfortable with strapless you are using the upper body more relative to the legs. This is natural as with strapless you do not have the same ability to stop yourself after a strong leg drive so you tend, at first, to compensate by not driving as hard.<br /><br />As you become more comfortable with it, better balanced and learn to transmit all the power of that leg drive into the flywheel via the handle you should find that you can increase the leg drive, and hence the power, without having to increase the spm. Then you really start to develop good technique and power so that when you strap in and increase the spm to race speed you go fassssst.<br /><br />Neil

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » May 14th, 2005, 12:03 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Shepherd @ May 14 2005, 08:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />I still don't feel like my legs are getting as much work as they were before -- I feel like slow-stroke rowing is more upper-body intensive, while fast-stroke rowing puts more emphasis on your legs. That's just my impression, though. <br /><br />Old news for the old guard, I know, but I figured new users might like to read this. I'm a convert. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Shepherd,<br /><br />Nice summary. Are you the same Shepherd who held the view that without straps you would fly off the back of the erg <br /><br />Slow stroke rowing strapless can put just as much emphasis on the legs; trust me.<br /><br />I suspect that until you become fully comfortable with strapless you are using the upper body more relative to the legs. This is natural as with strapless you do not have the same ability to stop yourself after a strong leg drive so you tend, at first, to compensate by not driving as hard.<br /><br />As you become more comfortable with it, better balanced and learn to transmit all the power of that leg drive into the flywheel via the handle you should find that you can increase the leg drive, and hence the power, without having to increase the spm. Then you really start to develop good technique and power so that when you strap in and increase the spm to race speed you go fassssst.<br /><br />Neil

[old] Shepherd · Post by **[old] Shepherd** » May 16th, 2005, 9:19 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ May 14 2005, 11:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Nice summary. Are you the same Shepherd who held the view that without straps you would fly off the back of the erg <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Guilty! And to be honest, I almost did this morning. I was trying to put more "punch" behind my legs, and had a "whoooa" moment as my feet flew back off the footrest. I'm still adjusting (I imagine it'll take time) but I'm definitely getting a better handle on the balance involved and how to get more power out of my stroke. I can hold a 24/25 SPM rate pretty easily now, and I'm looking forward to speeding up again once I feel I've mastered this routine.

<br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>As you become more comfortable with it, better balanced and learn to transmit all the power of that leg drive into the flywheel via the handle you should find that you can increase the leg drive, and hence the power, without having to increase the spm. Then you really start to develop good technique and power so that when you strap in and increase the spm to race speed you go fassssst.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I thi-ii-iink I'm getting there. At first I had no idea what this meant but after a couple of sessions I really can feel it happening. <br />

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » May 16th, 2005, 9:43 am

I usually avoid giving people advice on rowing technique. Your comment about working the upper body more when rowing strapless however reminds me of something that I have been working on (plus, I was one of the people here that recommended you try rowing strapless I think). I rowed strapless for about 2 years; I also got a PM3 when they came out, and row almost exclusively with the force curve display. Do you have a PM3?<br /><br />For my stroke, I believe the combination of rowing strapless and wanting an explosive start to my force curve led me to engage with my arms and back too early in the stroke. When strapless, you have to balance at the finish, so I may have had a weaker finish and a stronger middle as a result. My understanding is that the first third of the stroke should be legs only, then back, then arms, with some overlap.<br /><br />Now I am working on starting with my legs only, and trying to wait on opening my back and engaging my arms until the after that initial start with my legs. So that is another 2-3 things to keep in mind as you work on developing a stronger stroke by rowing strapless.

[old] Shepherd · Post by **[old] Shepherd** » May 17th, 2005, 8:13 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ May 16 2005, 08:43 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I also got a PM3 when they came out, and row almost exclusively with the force curve display. Do you have a PM3? </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes -- I tend to row with the pace boat or the "maximum data" screen, though. I like the pace boat -- it's a great motivator. <br /><br /><br /><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Now I am working on starting with my legs only, and trying to wait on opening my back and engaging my arms until the after that initial start with my legs. So that is another 2-3 things to keep in mind as you work on developing a stronger stroke by rowing strapless. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks -- that's great advice. I've been thinking about that myself over my last few sessions, especially given the "legs to handle" advice given above. This morning, I really tried to visualize the force from my legs moving the handle at the beginning of the stroke, and I think it helped me "clean up" my form a little. I'm going to keep doing that -- trying to picture my legs driving the handle for the first part of the stroke rather than my back or arms, and then visualizing the transfer of power from the legs up to the arms. It's hard to explain, but it's clear in my head.

[old] Alan Maddocks · Post by **[old] Alan Maddocks** » May 17th, 2005, 10:47 am

Two other little tweaks that might help ....<br /><br />Firstly, make sure that at the catch that your arms are straight (no bending at the elbows), & <br /><br />Secondly, don't grip your hands round the handle, grip with your fingers (like hooks) only.

[old] Alan Maddocks · Post by **[old] Alan Maddocks** » May 17th, 2005, 10:59 am

And, a third tweak ....<br /><br />Row at LOW drag (120-125), so there is no need to "heave" at the catch.

[old] Shepherd · Post by **[old] Shepherd** » May 19th, 2005, 9:41 am

Thanks for that, Alan. I'll have to start turning the drag feature on (but I've also been thinking of getting a heart monitor, so... hmm...)

[old] jfisher · Post by **[old] jfisher** » May 19th, 2005, 9:08 pm

Strapless rowing really works! <br /><br />I've been doing 2K to 5K strapless rows for the past week and was able to increase my pace from about 2:05 down to about 1:53 without flying off of the seat.<br /><br />So why do I think it works? I just did a PB 30 miniute row, 7585 up to 8061. The important thing is that my avg MPS was 10.1 That's up from about 9.5 or so. I think the strapless rowing has helped get a much better drive with my legs.<br /><br />Anyway, just my 2c worth.<br /><br />Jeff<br />

[old] Shepherd · Post by **[old] Shepherd** » May 21st, 2005, 9:35 am

After two weeks or so, my strapless 5k time is starting to close in on my former "strapped" 5k time. Which feels great!

[old] neilb · Post by **[old] neilb** » May 21st, 2005, 1:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Shepherd @ May 21 2005, 08:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>After two weeks or so, my strapless 5k time is starting to close in on my former "strapped" 5k time. Which feels great! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />and then when you actually strap in to race (strapless is only for training purposes) you will go even faster!<br /><br />Neil

[old] 15kaday · Post by **[old] 15kaday** » June 1st, 2005, 11:05 am

<br />[/quote]"At first, I didn't like it much at all. It didn't feel like as much of a workout, I was much slower (wounding my ginger pride), and I missed the ab work of being able to really lean back supported by the straps and pull myself up with my stomach." <br /> You can lean back just as much strapless. Another advantage of rowing strapless is you learn how to keep your heels pinned down. When you put your feet in keep the heels pressed down as much as possible. When you drive down keep your feet flat on the footplate. It takes time but once you learn that its easier. And with strapless you support yourself more when you lean back because instead of just throwing your weight back recklessly your using your muscle to push yourself back.<br /><br />Keep the drag around 120-125 because any higher can hurt your back. <br /><br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » June 1st, 2005, 12:02 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(15kaday @ Jun 1 2005, 07:05 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Keep the drag around 120-125 because any higher can hurt your back. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hmmm, these "matter of fact" tones sound familiar. I hope it's just a strange conincidence rather than a disguise.

[old] akit110 · Post by **[old] akit110** » June 1st, 2005, 1:46 pm

[quote=15kaday,Jun 1 2005, 11:05 AM]<br />[/quote]"At first, I didn't like it much at all. It didn't feel like as much of a workout, I was much slower (wounding my ginger pride), and I missed the ab work of being able to really lean back supported by the straps and pull myself up with my stomach." <br /> You can lean back just as much strapless. Another advantage of rowing strapless is you learn how to keep your heels pinned down. When you put your feet in keep the heels pressed down as much as possible. When you drive down keep your feet flat on the footplate. It takes time but once you learn that its easier. And with strapless you support yourself more when you lean back because instead of just throwing your weight back recklessly your using your muscle to push yourself back.<br /><br />Keep the drag around 120-125 because any higher can hurt your back. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Is keeping the heel completely down at the catch always recommended? I had always lifted my heels but moved towards keeping it flat a couple of months back and saw a drop in my average speed of a second or two per 500m. This weekend, I did a 5K with lifted heels at the catch and I noticed my average speed went back up. The downside is that lifting the heels resulted probably in my being overcompressed at the catch.

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