Back Problems?

[[old] adkmurray]

Hello All,<br />Thought I should relate my experience with back problems and the Erg. About 10 years ago I had serious lower back problems. Without searching the files, the major problem in laymans terms was lower back degeneration which began causing severe pain to various parts of one leg due to pressure on the nerves. This caused me to stop running and rowing on the erg. After physical therapy etc., things began looking a lot better. All I have now is some dull pain in one leg and as long as I don't lift wrong I'm happy to be able to do what I can. Last Sept. I decided to purchase another erg and give it a try. I have been rowing ever since (around 350K). At first I did notice some tighness and tiring of the lower back but after a while the back has strengthened and I believe the stomach also. I have noticed dramatic improvement in the condition of the back with less pain in the leg and sensitivity of the back. I believe, with my back condition it has improved things more then anything I've tried. There are probably a thousand different back ailments but I can say that in my case the erg has helped. I do not reach in very far on the catch or lean back on the finish which probably doesn't help with rankings but may be making up some with the arms and legs. I find myself in the 80 percentiles which I hope to improve. Hope this is helpful to anyone who might consider themselves unable to row with any back problem. If anyone needs details to exactly my back condition send me an email and I'll be glad to help. Even then, I'm sure there are different degress of degeneration and rowing could set you back but for me it was very much worth the try.<br />Cheers, <br />Jim

[[old] cbrock]

<!--QuoteBegin-adkmurray+Jan 4 2006, 08:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(adkmurray @ Jan 4 2006, 08:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello All,<br />Thought I should relate my experience with back problems and the Erg.  About 10 years ago I had serious lower back problems.  Without searching the files, the major problem in laymans terms was lower back degeneration which began causing severe pain to various parts of one leg due to pressure on the nerves.  This caused me to stop running and rowing on the erg.  After physical therapy etc., things began looking a lot better.  All I have now is some dull pain in one leg and as long as I don't lift wrong I'm happy to be able to do what I can.  Last Sept. I decided to purchase another erg and give it a try.  I have been rowing ever since (around 350K).  At first I did notice some tighness and tiring of the lower back but after a while the back has strengthened and I believe the stomach also.  I have noticed dramatic improvement in the condition of the back with less pain in the leg and sensitivity of the back.  I believe, with my back condition it has improved things more then anything I've tried.  There are probably a thousand different back ailments but I can say that in my case the erg has helped.  I do not reach in very far on the catch or lean back on the finish which probably doesn't help with rankings but may be making up some with the arms and legs.  I find myself in the 80 percentiles which I hope to improve.  Hope this is helpful to anyone who might consider themselves unable to row with any back problem.  If anyone needs details to exactly my back condition send me an email and I'll be glad to help.  Even then, I'm sure there are different degress of degeneration and rowing could set you back but for me it was very much worth the try.<br />Cheers, <br />Jim <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Jim,<br />I had the same problem as you and had to give up running completely with major back problems over 10 years ago.<br /><br />Started using the erg six month's ago and had no problems until recently when I adjusted my stroke rate.<br /><br />Every post I have read recommends a lower rate to increase strength.<br /><br />I used to row at about 28spm and when I dropped it to 20-22 got major problems with my back.<br /><br />Have now gone back to my old method.<br /><br />I would rather have an inferior time and still be able to row!<br /><br />Good luck but be careful and back off if you get those nasty jabs in the lower back or pain down the leg.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Roland Baltutis]

You must be doing something right if the erg has cured your lower back problems. Usually it's the opposite case because the stationary erg is not too kind on your lower back. I'm still waiting for C2 to progress forward and re-design it as a moving flywheel erg. Slides are a tacky after thought, that do help your lower back, but do not do enough to make up for the initial design flaw.<br /><br />To avoid back problems it's important not to slump down and over reach at the catch position. Lowering the height of your feet should help avoid that problem.<br /><br />I'm not from the school of rowing at 20-22spm and never really go below 26 spm. You don't race like that so there's no point wasting my time training like that. It also wouldn't help someone with lower back problems because many would develope a sudden jerking motion in their technique rowing at 20-22spm to cover the same meters of a higher rating. Not good at all for your back.<br /><br />Come on C2 make my day. Produce an erg with a moving flywheel without the need for slides (Get the design right).<br /><br />Rockin Roland

[[old] adkmurray]

Chris,<br />Very interesting re the same problem. As far as the stroke rate goes I do vary it somewhat depending on what I'm doing. For the 200K Challange I slowed it up with about 8 meters per stroke. Seems you can go forever at that. I found the 200K not that beneficial and feel like I can get more out of a 6K 30 min then 2 hours of slower pace. But regarding the pace I do vary it quite a bit depending on how I feel etc.. I haven't found any relation to stroke rate and back pain but have found that the length of time I row is related to the back. The longer I have to keep the back in proper posture the more tired it gets and I start to feel it some. Stopping and standing a couple minutes helps. Oddly enough, trying to break my best times has not caused any problems although over the last couple of years my upper body, mainly the arms have learned to take over from the back and have become very strong so probably over using them on the erg to compensate (resulting at times in sore shoulders and arms). So we probably won't hit any 6 min. 2ks without the complete package but won't sell my erg!<br />Cheers, <br />Jim

[[old] cbrock]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Jan 6 2006, 05:31 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Jan 6 2006, 05:31 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You must be doing something right if the erg has cured your lower back problems. Usually it's the opposite case because the stationary erg is not too kind on your lower back. I'm still waiting for C2 to progress forward and re-design it as a moving flywheel erg. Slides are a tacky after thought, that do help your lower back, but do not do enough to make up for the initial design flaw.<br /><br />To avoid back problems it's important not to slump down and over reach at the catch position. Lowering the height of your feet should help avoid that problem.<br /><br />I'm not from the school of rowing at 20-22spm and never really go below 26 spm. You don't race like that so there's no point wasting my time training like that. It also wouldn't help someone with lower back problems because many would develope a sudden jerking motion in their technique rowing at 20-22spm to cover the same meters of a higher rating. Not good at all for your back.<br /><br />Come on C2 make my day. Produce an erg with a moving flywheel without the need for slides (Get the design right).<br /><br />Rockin Roland <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Roland,<br />Coming from an Australian champion I am very happy to hear that you have had a very high level of success rowing at 26 SPM. It still gives me some hope!<br /><br />Are you going to Boston with the Australian Team (presuming we have one!)<br /><br />Best of Luck if you are.<br /><br />Chris<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] Roland Baltutis]

<!--QuoteBegin-cbrock+Jan 6 2006, 01:35 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 6 2006, 01:35 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Jan 6 2006, 05:31 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Jan 6 2006, 05:31 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You must be doing something right if the erg has cured your lower back problems. Usually it's the opposite case because the stationary erg is not too kind on your lower back. I'm still waiting for C2 to progress forward and re-design it as a moving flywheel erg. Slides are a tacky after thought, that do help your lower back, but do not do enough to make up for the initial design flaw.<br /><br />To avoid back problems it's important not to slump down and over reach at the catch position. Lowering the height of your feet should help avoid that problem.<br /><br />I'm not from the school of rowing at 20-22spm and never really go below 26 spm. You don't race like that so there's no point wasting my time training like that. It also wouldn't help someone with lower back problems because many would develope a sudden jerking motion in their technique rowing at 20-22spm to cover the same meters of a higher rating. Not good at all for your back.<br /><br />Come on C2 make my day. Produce an erg with a moving flywheel without the need for slides (Get the design right).<br /><br />Rockin Roland <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Roland,<br />Coming from an Australian champion I am very happy to hear that you have had a very high level of success rowing at 26 SPM. It still gives me some hope!<br /><br />Are you going to Boston with the Australian Team (presuming we have one!)<br /><br />Best of Luck if you are.<br /><br />Chris <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Chris,<br /> I'm not going this year as I didn't make the qualifying time required. I thought about paying my own way but the expense of $3000 plus to take part in a 6 and bit minute race is hard to justify. Hence I put the money towards buying a new rowing boat, which makes more sense to me, as you get far more recognition doing well on the water than on the humble erg. My immediate focus is doing well on the water but certainly will still do Rowpro and Aust Champ. erg races too.<br /><br />However the Aussies are sending a team of lightweights spreadheaded by the very experienced John Harvey and should do well. Don't worry too much about stroke rate and just go with your natural rhythm.<br /><br />Rockin Roland<br />

[[old] dmhayden]

I just wanted to add my experience to the thread. I'm 42 6'1" tall and about 193lbs. Started rowing in March 2005 on a model C and got about 800km before injuring my back in early September. The injury came as I stood up from looking through a low wall panel, but the real cause was probably 2hrs of hitting tennis backhands that afternoon after not playing tennis at all for 20+ years. The injury put me out of work for 2 days (and I work at a desk - not exactly strenuous stuff).<br /><br />Lots of work with a chiropractor made slow progress. I tried rowing a couple of times, but it always set me way back for a week. About 6 weeks ago, I bought a new chair for work and that really helped.<br /><br />Now the rowing: I've started again and it's looking very promising. Before the injury, I'd work out at about a 1:58 - 2:05 pace. About 2 weeks ago, I got back on the erg and rowed a very careful 1000m, keeping the pace above 2:30. This was hard to do because after a couple hundred yards, I felt pretty good and really wanted to pull harder. The next day I was a little sore, but the day after I felt fine. I did that a couple more times without bad effect.<br /><br />To reduce back strain, I lowered the drag factor from my customary 124 to 116. Also, I try to keep my arms low and pull into my abdomen instead of my diaphram. This is basic physics: the closer the line of force is to your lower back, the less torque you put on your lower back. Finally, I try hard to sit up very tall, and I don't use my back much in my stroke.<br /><br />The result is that my back feels much better and I've been able to drop my pace to the 2:05-2:10 range. I'm still not rowing as far as before, but I've gotten out of shape too! I'm hopeful that within a few weeks, I'll be back to doing 10k/day at a pace around 2:05.<br /><br />So to summarize, my experience is that rowing can help a lower back injury, but you need to go easy (STOP as soon as you feel pain). Sit up tall, force yourself to row slowly, use a low DF, don't use your back, and keep the handle low to reduce torque on your lower back.<br />

[[old] pduck]

<!--QuoteBegin-dmhayden+Jan 26 2006, 02:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dmhayden @ Jan 26 2006, 02:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just wanted to add my experience to the thread.  I'm 42 6'1" tall and about 193lbs.  Started rowing in March 2005 on a model C and got about 800km before injuring my back in early September. The injury came as I stood up from looking through a low wall panel, but the real cause was probably 2hrs of hitting tennis backhands that afternoon after not playing tennis at all for 20+ years.  The injury put me out of work for 2 days (and I work at a desk - not exactly strenuous stuff).<br /><br />Lots of work with a chiropractor made slow progress.  I tried rowing a couple of times, but it always set me way back for a week.  About 6 weeks ago, I bought a new chair for work and that really helped.<br /><br />Now the rowing: I've started again and it's looking very promising.  Before the injury, I'd work out at about a 1:58 - 2:05 pace.  About 2 weeks ago, I got back on the erg and rowed a very careful 1000m, keeping the pace above 2:30.  This was hard to do because after a couple hundred yards, I felt pretty good and really wanted to pull harder.  The next day I was a little sore, but the day after I felt fine.  I did that a couple more times without bad effect.<br /><br />To reduce back strain, I lowered the drag factor from my customary 124 to 116.  Also, I try to keep my arms low and pull into my abdomen instead of my diaphram.  This is basic physics: the closer the line of force is to your lower back, the less torque you put on your lower back.  Finally, I try hard to sit up very tall, and I don't use my back much in my stroke.<br /><br />The result is that my back feels much better and I've been able to drop my pace to the 2:05-2:10 range.  I'm still not rowing as far as before, but I've gotten out of shape too!  I'm hopeful that within a few weeks, I'll be back to doing 10k/day at a pace around 2:05.<br /><br />So to summarize, my experience is that rowing can help a lower back injury, but you need to go easy (STOP as soon as you feel pain).  Sit up tall, force yourself to row slowly, use a low DF, don't use your back, and keep the handle low to reduce torque on your lower back. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br /><br />My back pain is in the middle of the back rather than lower back. Kind of in the center, slightly lower than the shoulder blades. I try to row with a straight back, but it's hard. I also find that my posture tends to be worse after I'm done erging. Anyway, I'll try to use your advice. Thanks.

[[old] Ben Rea]

ussually its in the lower back, i think everyone gets thes pains sometimes during their erging/rowing days.

[[old] ljwagner]

Have you tried any low back strengthening exercises, and do you warm up your back before getting on the C2 ? I've read circulation there is not as good as other parts of the body, so it recovers slower to injury. Do you use a cold pack occasionally when it gets sore ? Light massage is also good to ease soreness.<br /><br />The C2 demo video shows a rounded back, and the wireman pulls back as he drives his legs. The few times I've tried that it never felt good. On my leg drive, I have a slight lean away from the handle, back tall slightly arched to the rear, and I don't lean back much if any at the finish. I lean forward some on the recovery and slide forward, but alter the angle in the last foot of the slide to the position I drive from, with no resistance for the back. A few people on the forum have tried it and liked it, or felt it was neutral to their power. A few on the forum ridiculed it pretty heavily. I've rowed this way for over 30 years, and my back never bothers me doing it this way. Including when I rowed competitively (college). I use my low back very little this way.<br /><br />Pulling in low will reduce low back torque on the erg, it just does not work well otw.