Magnesium Orotate

[[old] dadams]

Any one out there know if Magnesium Orotate is worth anything?<br /><br />From what I've read, this stuff is suppose to be endurance gold.<br /><br />Dwayne

[[old] BobD]

<!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any one out there know if Magnesium Orotate is worth anything?<br /><br />From what I've read, this stuff is suppose to be endurance gold.<br /><br />Dwayne <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Magic Bullet or Snake Oil Gold in the pockets of the people selling it.

[[old] dadams]

<!--QuoteBegin-BobD+Jan 3 2006, 02:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BobD @ Jan 3 2006, 02:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any one out there know if Magnesium Orotate is worth anything?<br /><br />From what I've read, this stuff is suppose to be endurance gold.<br /><br />Dwayne <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Magic Bullet or Snake Oil Gold in the pockets of the people selling it. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's what I'm trying to find out. Magic Bullet or Snake oil?

[[old] BobD]

<!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 02:51 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 02:51 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-BobD+Jan 3 2006, 02:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BobD @ Jan 3 2006, 02:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any one out there know if Magnesium Orotate is worth anything?<br /><br />From what I've read, this stuff is suppose to be endurance gold.<br /><br />Dwayne <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Magic Bullet or Snake Oil Gold in the pockets of the people selling it. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's what I'm trying to find out. Magic Bullet or Snake oil? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I looked at a few ads that I Googled, it looks like Snake Oil to me, and as far as I know, no one has ever found a magic bullet.

[[old] dadams]

I found this out on the web, but don't have enough medical background to really understand it. Someone please help me out here. Is this a good thing? Bad thing? <br /><br />The study was done on rats. So what would be the difference(s) between the rat physio and humans?<br /><br />"Department of Physiology, University of Munich, Germany.<br /><br />Female Sprague-Dawley rats were given magnesium orotate (100 mg/kg/day) by gavage for 7 days. The effects on left ventricular, right ventricular, and circulatory function were measured using Millar ultraminiature catheter pressure transducers and thermodilution. In another series, rats were pretreated for 4 days with magnesium orotate. Then they received an intravenous infusion of norepinephrine (0.2 mg/kg/h) for 3 days while magnesium orotate treatment was continued. Thereafter, left ventricular function was examined. Magnesium orotate given for 7 days in control rats induced an increase in heart rate from 380 +/- 18 (n = 7) to 415 +/- 9 beats/min (n = 8); in left ventricular systolic pressure from 165 +/- 8 to 183 +/- 10 mmHg; in left ventricular dP/dtmax from 11486 +/- 1082 to 13300 +/- 909 mmHg/s; and in cardiac output from 386 +/- 38 to 429 +/- 16 ml/kg/min. The pressure-rate product was significantly elevated by magnesium orotate from 54956 +/- 4260 to 66094 +/- 3703 mmHg/min (p < 0.05). Right ventricular systolic pressure was also significantly increased from 34 +/- 1 to 41 +/- 3 mmHg (p < 0.05), and right ventricular dP/dtmax was increased from 2233 +/- 167 to 2857 +/- 489 mmHg/s. Infusion of norepinephrine for 3 days induced an increase in heart rate by 34%, in left ventricular systolic pressure by 10%, in left ventricular dP/dtmax by 88%, in right ventricular systolic pressure by 147%, and in right ventricular dP/dtmax by 100%. Magnesium orotate treatment did not significantly affect the changes induced by norepinephrine.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)"<br /><br />So from what I understand, the pressure and heart rate increased. Signficantly enough to be a good thing, or a bad thing? This would (I'm guessing) increase the volume of blood flow as well. So is there an offset? <br /><br />Does anyone know if the experiment has been done on humans? To what results?

[[old] BobD]

<!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 03:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 03:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I found this out on the web, but don't have enough medical background to really understand it. Someone please help me out here. Is this a good thing? Bad thing? <br /><br />The study was done on rats. So what would be the difference(s) between the rat physio and humans?<br /><br />"Department of Physiology, University of Munich, Germany.<br /><br />Female Sprague-Dawley rats were given magnesium orotate (100 mg/kg/day) by gavage for 7 days. The effects on left ventricular, right ventricular, and circulatory function were measured using Millar ultraminiature catheter pressure transducers and thermodilution. In another series, rats were pretreated for 4 days with magnesium orotate. Then they received an intravenous infusion of norepinephrine (0.2 mg/kg/h) for 3 days while magnesium orotate treatment was continued. Thereafter, left ventricular function was examined. Magnesium orotate given for 7 days in control rats induced an increase in heart rate from 380 +/- 18 (n = 7) to 415 +/- 9 beats/min (n = 8); in left ventricular systolic pressure from 165 +/- 8 to 183 +/- 10 mmHg; in left ventricular dP/dtmax from 11486 +/- 1082 to 13300 +/- 909 mmHg/s; and in cardiac output from 386 +/- 38 to 429 +/- 16 ml/kg/min. The pressure-rate product was significantly elevated by magnesium orotate from 54956 +/- 4260 to 66094 +/- 3703 mmHg/min (p < 0.05). Right ventricular systolic pressure was also significantly increased from 34 +/- 1 to 41 +/- 3 mmHg (p < 0.05), and right ventricular dP/dtmax was increased from 2233 +/- 167 to 2857 +/- 489 mmHg/s. Infusion of norepinephrine for 3 days induced an increase in heart rate by 34%, in left ventricular systolic pressure by 10%, in left ventricular dP/dtmax by 88%, in right ventricular systolic pressure by 147%, and in right ventricular dP/dtmax by 100%. Magnesium orotate treatment did not significantly affect the changes induced by norepinephrine.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)" <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I was a Biologist in an earler life. This study was done to see if the stuff would have any effect on increased heart rate or blood pressure. They used norepinephrine to increase the heart rate and BP in the rats (this is the stuff put in a lot of anthistamines to keep you awake, it drives my ticker crazy). The conclusion was that it had no effect in lowering BP or reducing heart rate.

[[old] dadams]

<!--QuoteBegin-BobD+Jan 3 2006, 03:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BobD @ Jan 3 2006, 03:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was a Biologist in an earler life.  This study was done to see if the stuff would have any effect on increased heart rate or blood pressure.  They used  norepinephrine to increase the heart rate and BP in the rats (this is the stuff put in a lot of anthistamines to keep you awake, it drives my ticker crazy).  The conclusion was that it had no effect in lowering BP or reducing heart rate.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That was the norepinephrine though right? What does this conclude? The effect of the Mag Orotate seems to increase HR and BP. My first reaction is 'not good'. However, if one is to increase blood flow volume (excuse my terminology) to the tissues, would this not benefit the endurance athlete?

[[old] Roland Baltutis]

<!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 03:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 03:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-BobD+Jan 3 2006, 03:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BobD @ Jan 3 2006, 03:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was a Biologist in an earler life.  This study was done to see if the stuff would have any effect on increased heart rate or blood pressure.  They used  norepinephrine to increase the heart rate and BP in the rats (this is the stuff put in a lot of anthistamines to keep you awake, it drives my ticker crazy).  The conclusion was that it had no effect in lowering BP or reducing heart rate.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That was the norepinephrine though right? What does this conclude? The effect of the Mag Orotate seems to increase HR and BP. My first reaction is 'not good'. However, if one is to increase blood flow volume (excuse my terminology) to the tissues, would this not benefit the endurance athlete? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwayne,<br /> It increases VO2 which in turn increases time to exhaustion during exercise. I haven't come across any positive testimonials from people using it so at this point couldn't say if it's worth your while. <br /><br />There are many substances out there that will increase VO2. Some of them are banned like Modafinil which was found in the urine of US sprinter Kelli White. Modafinil was shown by Canadian research to increase time to exhaustion by as much as 22% and was considered for use during military combat operations.<br /><br />If your looking for a legal way of increasing the amount of bio-available oxygen to the bloodstream then how about trying a supplement called Oxyshot. It's a relatively new Aussie product which is basically water with a very high concentration of oxygen in it. Check it out at www.sportsoxyshot.com<br />Watch out for the sexy photo of Arina Manta.<br /><br />I can find out more about norepinephrine from my wife who is a forensic scientist and one of the leading drug testers here in Australia.<br /><br />Rockin Roland<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Jan 3 2006, 02:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Jan 3 2006, 02:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 03:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 03:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-BobD+Jan 3 2006, 03:41 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(BobD @ Jan 3 2006, 03:41 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was a Biologist in an earler life.  This study was done to see if the stuff would have any effect on increased heart rate or blood pressure.  They used  norepinephrine to increase the heart rate and BP in the rats (this is the stuff put in a lot of anthistamines to keep you awake, it drives my ticker crazy).  The conclusion was that it had no effect in lowering BP or reducing heart rate.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That was the norepinephrine though right? What does this conclude? The effect of the Mag Orotate seems to increase HR and BP. My first reaction is 'not good'. However, if one is to increase blood flow volume (excuse my terminology) to the tissues, would this not benefit the endurance athlete? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dwayne,<br /> It increases VO2 which in turn increases time to exhaustion during exercise. I haven't come across any positive testimonials from people using it so at this point couldn't say if it's worth your while. <br /><br />There are many substances out there that will increase VO2. Some of them are banned like Modafinil which was found in the urine of US sprinter Kelli White. Modafinil was shown by Canadian research to increase time to exhaustion by as much as 22% and was considered for use during military combat operations.<br /><br />If your looking for a legal way of increasing the amount of bio-available oxygen to the bloodstream then how about trying a supplement called Oxyshot. It's a relatively new Aussie product which is basically water with a very high concentration of oxygen in it. Check it out at www.sportsoxyshot.com<br />Watch out for the sexy photo of Arina Manta.<br /><br />I can find out more about norepinephrine from my wife who is a forensic scientist and one of the leading drug testers here in Australia.<br /><br />Rockin Roland <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />OMG! Just when you think it's safe to go back in the water... LOL <br /><br />"Liquid Oxygen"!?!?!?!?!? Not sure we want to be anywhere near that, at least with our organic bits.<br /><br />Here's what's going to happen to this company (In a reasonable world)<br /><br />There will be a lawsuit for untimely death caused by increased oxidation of the deceased.<br />The Company will be forced to admit that dihydrogenmonoxide, in spite of being invoved in the deaths of thousands anually and the "active ingredient" in OxyShot&#153;, is as harmless (or helpful for that matter) as common tap water. They will settle the class action lawsuit by providing "support rocks" to all class members as a token reminder to not be so gullible in the future. Everyone will end up happy. <br /><br />Now I'd like to take this opportunity to implore all who are interested in advancing their performance to purchase a CBreeze, and begin to assist in circulating the atmosphere of the planet, while at the same time increasing their fitness levels, thus engaging in both personal and global benefit. Not to mention that by circulating the air in the room, there will be a greater concentration of bioavailable O2 in the air being breathed. Don't get caught in the "Low-O2 Pocket" of expired air!

[[old] Paul S]

Just think how much better our air would be if every Concept rower was equiped with a "C Breeze" I know my bedroom is so much fresher now. That's a good one Paul.

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-Roland Baltutis+Jan 3 2006, 10:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Roland Baltutis @ Jan 3 2006, 10:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If your looking for a legal way of increasing the amount of bio-available oxygen to the bloodstream then how about trying a supplement called Oxyshot. It's a relatively new Aussie product which is basically water with a very high concentration of oxygen in it. Check it out at www.sportsoxyshot.com <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />This report: <a href='http://www.chem1.com/CQ/oxyscams.html' target='_blank'>http://www.chem1.com/CQ/oxyscams.html</a> (can we trust what we find on the Internet?) suggests that "superoxygenated" water is nothing more than pseudoscientific snake-oil.<br /><br />

[[old] TomR/the elder]

Dwayne--<br /><br />I saw a short reference to one study in which the supplement was used on triathletes, and they improved their times.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.bulknutrition.com/i16_Magnesium.html' target='_blank'>http://www.bulknutrition.com/i16_Magnesium.html</a><br /><br />The guy's citing the study is selling the stuff.<br /><br />And as you know, you could spend half of the rest of your life finding references to studies of supplements that improved someone's performance somewhere.<br /><br />Tom

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-Paul S+Jan 3 2006, 03:03 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Paul S @ Jan 3 2006, 03:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just think how much better our air would be if every Concept rower was equiped with a "C Breeze"  I know my bedroom is so much fresher now.  That's a good one Paul. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I Dream of such things! <br /><br />In fact:<br />Our atmosphere is 20% oxygen or 200,000 ppm<br />Vs.<br />OxyShot&#153; 150,000 ppm<br /><br />The CBreeze will deliver a concentration of O2 that is 33% greater than OxyShot&#153;, directly for our immediate use.<br /><br />How about those "Oxygenated Hydrocarbon solutions" that they were using for ultra deep diving in the Abyss? Though it seemed to reduce respiratory rate considerably.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin-dadams+Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dadams @ Jan 3 2006, 01:23 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Any one out there know if Magnesium Orotate is worth anything?<br /><br />From what I've read, this stuff is suppose to be endurance gold.<br /><br />Dwayne <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Dwayne,<br /><br />I have no experience or knowledge about this product. If the main ingredient is magnesium or some variant such as magnesia, in the golden days of cycling when there would be 6 day bike races where cyclists rode for hours and hours, there would be a bottle of Milk of Magnesia on the table at the infield. If a cyclist started to cramp, he would take a little Milk of Magnesia. I know this because as late as the 70's I went to a 6 day bike race at a velodrome in Detroit, and one of the competing cyclists in the car had us stop at a drug store on the way to the velodrome so he could buy a bottle of Milk of Magnesia. <br /><br />So although this is anectodal, there might be some value taking in some magnesium in a very long event to help avoid cramping. <br /><br />Byron<br /><br /><br />

[[old] anthonys]

With all due respect,<br /><br />when was the last time you were a rat? My vote goes for snake oil.<br /><br />tony