Smoking & Its Effects

[[old] rspenger]

<!--QuoteBegin-TomR/the elder+Dec 23 2005, 05:58 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Dec 23 2005, 05:58 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you referring to Pork Chop's post? #9 above.<br /><br />I'm now heading to the *** DELETE - SPAM *** in search of a peanut butter high. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You are right, Tom. I just didn't go back far enough. Somehow I had the impression that it was a response to Andrew's message, but it was just before that. The joke about the peanut butter was inspired by the fact that I was still working some loose when I was writing the message. I have a habit of snacking on knäckebröd smeared thick with peanut butter. Probably more fat than I need, but my weight is holding and I had just finished a 15km plus 20 minutes of warmup and cool down.<br /><br />regards,<br /><br />Bob S.

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-rspenger+Dec 23 2005, 09:55 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(rspenger @ Dec 23 2005, 09:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-TomR/the elder+Dec 23 2005, 05:58 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(TomR/the elder @ Dec 23 2005, 05:58 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you referring to Pork Chop's post? #9 above.<br /><br />I'm now heading to the *** DELETE - SPAM *** in search of a peanut butter high. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You are right, Tom. I just didn't go back far enough. Somehow I had the impression that it was a response to Andrew's message, but it was just before that. The joke about the peanut butter was inspired by the fact that I was still working some loose when I was writing the message. I have a habit of snacking on knäckebröd smeared thick with peanut butter. Probably more fat than I need, but my weight is holding and I had just finished a 15km plus 20 minutes of warmup and cool down.<br /><br />regards,<br /><br />Bob S. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />"Mmmmm. Peanut butter." H. Simpson, 2005.

[[old] NJhsRower]

check the website marijuana.com<br /><br />it is not as bad as most of you may think.<br />since there is no tar it doesnt stick to your lungs as much as tobacco. your lungs cleaan thereselves also. so if you only do it on occassoin it shoudlnt be a problem at all.<br /><br />oh yea it doesnt cause cancer also... it prevents tumor build ups

[[old] Hal Morgan]

Dude, like, did you just smoke a big hit. You are thinking crazy to believe that crap. Drugs impair your mind body and spirit. when you smoke dpoe yu cant spel

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin-H_2O+Dec 23 2005, 05:27 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(H_2O @ Dec 23 2005, 05:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Although I have no experience with it myself I can report that some of the harder big walls in Yosemite did not have a drug free ascent for quite some time. --snip-- <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi H2O,<br /><br />That's very interesting. Yosemite seems to have plenty of deaths. I wonder if there is a connection. I've done a little rock climbing including vertical walls and I was scared when I did it. I think being scared is good. It makes you be very, very careful. I wouldn't have wanted any "stoners" along who happily climbed with a false sense of bravado.<br /><br />Byron<br />

[[old] afolpe]

[<br /><br />Hi H2O,<br /><br />That's very interesting. Yosemite seems to have plenty of deaths. I wonder if there is a connection. I've done a little rock climbing including vertical walls and I was scared when I did it. I think being scared is good. It makes you be very, very careful. I wouldn't have wanted any "stoners" along who happily climbed with a false sense of bravado.<br /><br />Byron<br /><br /><br /><br />but, see, that isn't really what happens. this isn't "reefer madness". crazed stoners aren't wildly freeclimbing yosemite (well, maybe they are, but that says more about freeclimbers...). when used in moderation, it's a rather benign substance, far more so than alchohol, and it certainly lends itself better to athletics. i'll take a few stoned paddlers over drunks in powerboats any day of the week, that's for sure.<br /><br />af<br />

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-NJhsRower+Dec 24 2005, 11:26 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(NJhsRower @ Dec 24 2005, 11:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->check the website marijuana.com<br /><br />it is not as bad as most of you may think.<br />since there is no tar it doesnt stick to your lungs as much as tobacco. your lungs cleaan thereselves also. so if you only do it on occassoin it shoudlnt be a problem at all.<br /><br />oh yea it doesnt cause cancer also... it prevents tumor build ups <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Afolpe: Any comments on these assertions? As a libertarian, for the most part, I really don't care whether any individual uses or not, but I'm curious about the assertion that it is physically and physiologically harmless.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh yea it doesnt cause cancer also... it prevents tumor build ups </td></tr></table> <br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->it is not as bad as most of you may think. </td></tr></table> <br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->when used in moderation, it's a rather benign substance </td></tr></table> <br /><br />Interesting opinions. Let me add one more quote, this one from my Webster's dictionary:<br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> rationalize --snip-- 2.Psychol. To atribute (one's actions) to rational and credible motives, without adequate analysis of the true motives. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Byron <br />

[[old] afolpe]

i guess i have a fairly libertarian viewpoint on this as well. <br /><br />by no means am i arguing that pot is an entirely benign substance, or that it is in some way medicinal or good for you. having been there personally, i have no doubt that if you do it too often (see: freshman year of college), it will sap your motivation and mental clarity. and i don't buy the argument that smoking it is somehow better than smoking anything else, from a pulmonary standpoint- your lungs are not designed to inhale smoke, period.<br /><br /> i haven't gotten high in several years now, for a few reasons: 1) i make difficult decisions that directly impact people's lives every day, and i feel i owe it to them to be at maximal sharpness at all times (and i recognize that i am slightly off for a day or so after i get high. i also feel the same way about alchohol, so i seldom get drunk, and definitely not on a sunday or a day before i am on call). 2) i simply got a bit bored of the effects. been there, done that. 3) although i enjoy getting high and exercising, i find i don't enjoy being high for several hours thereafter. if i could just get it to end in 2 hours, that might be different. 4) there's no way i'm going to put my career and my family's well-being at risk by attempting to buy it from anyone i don't know extremely well, and i don't have long--time friends here.<br /><br />actually, the last time i did was in amsterdam. it was very pleasant and entirely legal. it wasn't better than appreciating amsterdam sober, just somewhat different.<br /><br />i think the only point i've been trying to make is that, in my view, marijuana is simply another intoxicant, absolutely similar to alchohol, but with totally different effects (in my opinion, somewaht nicer). like alchohol, it is best enjoyed in moderation, and there may come a time in your life where it no longer fits in.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />andrew

[[old] afolpe]

Ultimately, intoxicants of various sorts and the desire to alter one's consciousness are ubiquitious among almost all societies in the world. The only exceptions I can think of are certain religions, where the desire for religious ectasy of one sort or another arguably takes the place of intoxicants, or among small, bizarre, secretive cults, such as indoor rowers, who seek out endogenous endorphin highs.<br /><br />I think there is fairly uniform agreement in the world that certain chemicals (heroin, crack cocaine, methamphetamine) are so uniformly addictive and destructive that they can't be allowed to circulate freely (here technology plays a role as well- in its native form, coca leaf is accepted and pretty benign, akin to a strong cup of coffee). Others, such as the psychedelics, are acceptable in particular situations in certain "primitive" cultures, but generally felt to be too weird in developed societies. The last group is comprised of things like alchohol, marijuana and nicotine. All of these can be used in socially acceptable, or in unacceptable fashions, depending on the individual and the culture. <br /><br />Dominant American culture has chosen to regard two of these as acceptable, and one as not. The reasons for this are very difficult for many otherwise productive and sensible people to accept as fully rational. I'm in this group.<br /><br />Andrew

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi Andrew,<br />That's a nice explanation. The whole subject strikes a nerve with me. I retired after teaching mathematics at the university level for 43 years, and so many times over the years I have seen students fail or not get into the programs they wanted because of poor academic records, partly because they were caught up in partying, using drugs, etc. And I'm pretty sure that I have seen first hand the negative effects of marijuana. If nothing else, I believe it affects the attention span. Of course this is anecdotal and just my opinion. Yes, of course some drugs are worse than others. By the way, I think the way the original question was posed showed quite a bit of maturity. He observed the detrimental effects on athletic performance of marijuana first hand; there was no denial of those effects. The question was more about the duration of the detrimental effects. The half-life studies of THC answer that question fairly well.<br />Merry Christmas,<br />Byron

[[old] dougsurf]

<!--QuoteBegin-Byron Drachman+Dec 25 2005, 09:56 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Byron Drachman @ Dec 25 2005, 09:56 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi Andrew,<br />That's a nice explanation. The whole subject strikes a nerve with me. I retired after teaching mathematics at the university level for 43 years, and so many times over the years I have seen students fail or not get into the programs they wanted because of poor academic records, partly because they were caught up in partying, using drugs, etc. And I'm pretty sure that I have seen first hand the negative effects of marijuana. If nothing else, I believe it affects the attention span. Of course this is anecdotal and just my opinion.  Yes, of course some drugs are worse than others. By the way, I think the way the original question was posed showed quite a bit of maturity. He observed the detrimental effects on athletic performance of marijuana first hand; there was no denial of those effects. The question was more about the duration of the detrimental effects. The half-life studies of THC answer that question fairly well.<br />Merry Christmas,<br />Byron <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />One more anecdote to offer along these lines. My high school and early college days were peppered with periods of fairly heavy pot use. After so many years of that, and enough curiosity to analyze things for myself (I too never believed authority's admonitions), I actually sat down and logged a calendar stretching back several years, noting the times of heavier usage (usually starting in the spring), and lighter periods (back to school in the Fall, etc.). I then dug up all of my grade reports for the same period. The resulting correlation would probably surprise few, but to actually see the reality of cause and effect was an eye opener and a turning point. The incidiousness of pot is the months after the fact that it stays in your system and affects you, so long past the high. I especially regret carrying on my partying priorities (along with cigarettes and more) while trying rowing for the first time in college. That I could have done so much better as a rower if I'd cleaned up my act immediately is now obvious. But the glass half full is that it was an excellently tough rowing program then, as much as anything, that showed me what in my life limited my capabilities, my health, my fitness. <br /><br />... as it does today when trying to decide how many beers in the evening I can get away with, or weekend cigars. How about those items? Any comments there?<br /><br />Happy New Year All,<br /><br />

[[old] rspenger]

<!--QuoteBegin-dougsurf+Jan 2 2006, 06:54 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(dougsurf @ Jan 2 2006, 06:54 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />... as it does today when trying to decide how many beers in the evening I can get away with, or weekend cigars. How about those items? Any comments there?<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you really need to ask those questions, it sounds like you have a problem - or problems.<br /><br />Bob S.

[[old] Hal Morgan]

One too many?

[[old] dougsurf]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hal Morgan+Jan 2 2006, 10:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Hal Morgan @ Jan 2 2006, 10:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One too many?  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Where is a Puritan costumed smiley when you need it?<br />