Health And Fitness

[old] RogerR · Post by **[old] RogerR** » September 21st, 2004, 5:50 pm

I'm rowing 10k a day in the morning before work in one session with a pace of ca. 2:10. I would do such training daily with exception of business travel days. Since a few days I suffer from some unspecific lower back pain. I keep on rowing and watch for good posture, don't pull too hard and do some stretching before and after the session. It's not getting better though. Any advise? Roger

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » September 21st, 2004, 6:28 pm

Be sure you are keeping your lower back straight when you're rowing, and keeping your rotation at your hips. The lower back is not all that flexible, in particular for handling that type of exertion. The same goes for stretching. You can rotate quite a bit and much more easily at your hips.

[old] jamesg · Post by **[old] jamesg** » September 22nd, 2004, 5:32 am

RR I've found exercise to be fundamental to controlling and reducing back problems and many others of course. However the erg forces no long-axis rotation, which can be of great help. Kayak, freestyle and there are also some twisting manoeuvres to do on the ground: flat on your back, lift the knees then roll them both sides keeping the shoulders down. Otherwise when standing, just look behind you... On the erg, core stability is the key as this helps to keep the back straight as JR says. From a purely engineering point of view it would seem to reduce compression load on the discs.

[old] Kudos · Post by **[old] Kudos** » September 22nd, 2004, 5:47 am

a good yoga class or book (I use Yoga for Every Athlete by Kogler) will help you keep your back loose and flexible, as well as give you excellent mind ot muscle connection. It takes work, about a half hour a day, but the benefits are excellent. A stronger abdominal wall will also help keep your posture from suffering and therefore putting your back at risk. This advice I would give any rower with a small lower back problem. But since it seems that you are somewhat new to rowing, I would just advise you to keep rowing and perhaps row more with less intensity which will get you into proper form and you'll teach yourself through muscle memory how to protect your back

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » September 22nd, 2004, 8:54 am

I find that erging with slides is easier on the lower back than erging alone. Paul Flack

[old] stkcoal@comcast.net · Post by **[old] stkcoal@comcast.net** » September 22nd, 2004, 8:54 pm

RR I had the same problem with my back for 3 years until I started training with Paul smith. I have rowed over 1 mil m since March under Paul's excellent coaching. If you know Paul all my training has been at strapless/10meters per stroke (s10ms). This has improved my technique to the point that I no longer finish with my back way too open. This error in technique causes tremendose stress on the lower back during recovery. It causes extreme overuse syndrome. You cannot get back that far if you row strapless or you will fall off the erg. I no longer have these back problems. I recommend you have someone that knows what they are doing take a look at your stroke. Better still, row s10ms. Paul, what do you think? Joe

[old] Kudos · Post by **[old] Kudos** » September 23rd, 2004, 12:23 pm

I wouldn't say that rowing strapless is necessarily the best idea uncoached, it could lead to more back problems. It is helpful in the long run if you row well, however I would think that this person could benefit from some hands on coaching/ videotape session if he has not received any yet to insure he is rowing correctly, which in my opinion is the leading cause to pain while rowing. Funny story, I always warm up before erg/row sessions strapless. Well I must have been observed by a novice in the BH but he didn't ask me any questions about it, the next thing I know i hear this big crash behind me. The kid did an endo off the back of the erg cause he tried it without thinking he had to change his approach a little to keep him from falling off. I almost fell off myself because I was laghing so hard when I found out what the huge noise was.

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » September 23rd, 2004, 11:05 pm

Roger, I have struggled with lower back for many years. I rowed in college, hurt it badly then, and have had numerous flat on the back periods in my life. 2 years ago I bought an old Model B and started thrashing away. I got carried away by the rankings and fun and spent the next year or so semi recovering and reinjuring it. I also would always do my workout, a good hard one with no warmup, first thing in the morning. Finally I bought a Swiss Ball. This is one of those huge inflatable balls you do exercises on and use as a chair. The exercises strengthen your core muscles and train you to support your lower back with your abs. I use the ball to stretch on several times a day, and especially before I row. Just laying on the ball on your stomach gently stretches the lower back in just the way it needs to get flexible in order to start the recovery part of the rowing stroke. There is a great video by Paul Chek that has some good stretches as well as good lower back strengthening exercises. I have switched to working out in the late afternoon or late evening, as the back is much more flexible after moving around all day. Rowing first thing in the morning if you are stiff is not a particularly good idea. At every workout, no exceptions! ! I now start with a VERY slow 2K warm up--like around 2:45 pace, concentrating on relaxing the lower back, making sure I am rowing in the right form, not laying back too far or opening up too soon, AND MAKING SURE I TIGHTEN THE DEEP DOWN LOW ABS AT THE CATCH! One mistake I used tomake was to jump on and just start hauling away as fast as I could go. Don't do that. Warm up gently and don't apply any serious pressure until you don't feel like a rusty door hinge. Slowly work up to the pace you might want to hold for a long row like a 10K or 30 minute piece. I am not planning on any serious interval work or 2Ks until I feel really solid in the lower back, having traveled this road a few times I am heartily sick of the results of being too ambitious too fast. After rowing the actual workout, I always do another 1 or 2K very slowly, again concentrating on form and smoothness, and follow with more stretching on the ball. Sorry this is so long but I hate to see someone else do the same thing I have done. Take care of yourself, don't be impatient, change your schedule so you are rowing when you are naturally more limber, stretch, warm up, and cool down. Carla ps I haven't been coached personally by Paul Smith, but I have been doing all my rowing strapless and at 10 MPS as he suggests on the forum.

[old] RogerR · Post by **[old] RogerR** » September 26th, 2004, 2:34 pm

Thanks for the very useful replies. As a matter of fact as I'm writing this I have just completed another 12K and the lower back pain is all gone. I have integrated some new stretches in my warm up/cool down routine along jamesg's advise. Roger

[old] zim32805 · Post by **[old] zim32805** » November 11th, 2005, 12:23 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(RogerR @ Sep 21 2004, 05:50 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm rowing 10k a day in the morning before work in one session with a pace of ca. 2:10. I would do such training daily with exception of business travel days. Since a few days I suffer from some unspecific lower back pain. I keep on rowing and watch for good posture, don't pull too hard and do some stretching before and after the session. It's not getting better though. Any advise? Roger </td></tr></table> I would suggest that you discontinue rowing or any other exercise that involves the lower back unil all back pain is gone. Continuing will continue the inflammation and cause further damage. Rowing is very repetitive on the vertabrae and discs and can give you a chronic problem is not done correctly. You may want to visit a sports minded orthopedic doctor and ask about lumbar spine strength. Also medxonline is a valuable resource. They make a rehab machine that isolates and strengthens the lower spine. It is quite effective if you can find one in your area. Saved me from back surgery even though I have l4, l5 bulging discs. Be careful and go slowly. Above all...rest the back until it heals. It won't heal as long as you work it. Best of luck.

[old] Roland Baltutis · Post by **[old] Roland Baltutis** » November 15th, 2005, 10:11 pm

Roger, Check the height of your feet, set up on your erg. One common cause of lower back pain in ergers and rowers alike is having the feet too high. Consequently application of power during the stroke phase places too much load on the lower back leading to back problems. Try lowering the feet and remember that for every inch you lower the feet you gain an inch of reach with the arms at the catch. Keep it smooth, keep it relaxed Roland Baltutis

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » November 16th, 2005, 8:48 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Check the height of your feet, set up on your erg. One common cause of lower back pain in ergers and rowers alike is having the feet too high. Consequently application of power during the stroke phase places too much load on the lower back leading to back problems. Try lowering the feet and remember that for every inch you lower the feet you gain an inch of reach with the arms at the catch. </td></tr></table> I think this is a good tip. Sometimes, we tend to forget these details. Keep doing the stretching, it very important - it makes muscle's recovery easier and strenghtens your back muscles. Many rowers have this kind of problem, mainly because (even if they have good technique) they have short lower back muscles and/or short hamstrings. Be sure you stretch both. AM

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » November 16th, 2005, 9:42 am

I fully support stretching the hamstrings and lower back. Everyone knows they should stretch as well but not everyone does. This I think is because they consider it painful, time consuming and for some that they emotionally are not convinced that it's good for them. For them it's just a thought that it's good, nothing real. Reaching for your toes with straight legs is all the stretching you need to avoid a lot problems though. Do it once and count to 30 slowly. Walk about, have a banana, talk about the workout (unless you are by yourself) and do it again. You should not stretch so much that it hurts. It need not take much time but just be a natural part of after workout relaxation. After some time you should be able to reach the floor, unless you a built like a T-Rex.

[old] ljwagner · Post by **[old] ljwagner** » November 20th, 2005, 6:58 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(seat5 @ Sep 23 2004, 08:05 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Roger, I have struggled with lower back for many years. I rowed in college, hurt it badly then, and have had numerous flat on the back periods in my life. 2 years ago I bought an old Model B and started thrashing away. I got carried away by the rankings and fun and spent the next year or so semi recovering and reinjuring it. I also would always do my workout, a good hard one with no warmup, first thing in the morning. Finally I bought a Swiss Ball. This is one of those huge inflatable balls you do exercises on and use as a chair. The exercises strengthen your core muscles and train you to support your lower back with your abs. I use the ball to stretch on several times a day, and especially before I row. Just laying on the ball on your stomach gently stretches the lower back in just the way it needs to get flexible in order to start the recovery part of the rowing stroke. There is a great video by Paul Chek that has some good stretches as well as good lower back strengthening exercises. I have switched to working out in the late afternoon or late evening, as the back is much more flexible after moving around all day. Rowing first thing in the morning if you are stiff is not a particularly good idea. At every workout, no exceptions! ! I now start with a VERY slow 2K warm up--like around 2:45 pace, concentrating on relaxing the lower back, making sure I am rowing in the right form, not laying back too far or opening up too soon, AND MAKING SURE I TIGHTEN THE DEEP DOWN LOW ABS AT THE CATCH! One mistake I used tomake was to jump on and just start hauling away as fast as I could go. Don't do that. Warm up gently and don't apply any serious pressure until you don't feel like a rusty door hinge. Slowly work up to the pace you might want to hold for a long row like a 10K or 30 minute piece. I am not planning on any serious interval work or 2Ks until I feel really solid in the lower back, having traveled this road a few times I am heartily sick of the results of being too ambitious too fast. After rowing the actual workout, I always do another 1 or 2K very slowly, again concentrating on form and smoothness, and follow with more stretching on the ball. Sorry this is so long but I hate to see someone else do the same thing I have done. Take care of yourself, don't be impatient, change your schedule so you are rowing when you are naturally more limber, stretch, warm up, and cool down. Carla ps I haven't been coached personally by Paul Smith, but I have been doing all my rowing strapless and at 10 MPS as he suggests on the forum. </td></tr></table> Carla: You have incorporated the proper cardiac warm-up. If you did not add that, you were working toward a strained heart valve, if not a failure. I'm getting over a strained valve, and its really tough to do nothing when you don't feel a problem anywhere. I just dealt myself a setback again, thinking I was well recovered. Do that warm-up and cool-down, without fail. The main thing it does is warm-up the heart for its strenuous workout supplying blood during the remainder of your workout. Cooldown, helps shun tthe blood back to the torso and organs, so the heart is not straining to pull it back should you stop exercising suddenly. As the years roll by, let your top scores start to drop slightly. You'll be doing your heart a favor.

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